Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, author of The Four Conversations, and co-host of the 2Bobs podcast. He helps experts, agencies, and consultants move from being treated like vendors to becoming trusted advisors.
In this episode, Blair joins Mark Stiving to unpack the hidden dynamics behind how buyers decide who they trust, who they listen to, and who they ultimately hire.
They explore why selling expertise is fundamentally different from selling products, how authority is established long before proposals are presented, and why presenting multiple options changes the psychology of buyer decision-making.
If you’ve ever wondered why some experts command confidence while others get stuck competing like commodities, this conversation will change how you think about selling, value, and buyer behavior.
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Why you have to check out today’s podcast:
- Learn how buyers decide who feels like the trusted expert — long before proposals, pricing, or deliverables are discussed.
- Discover why presenting multiple options changes buyer psychology and keeps you out of “convince mode” during sales conversations.
- Understand the Four Conversations framework that helps experts move from being treated like vendors to becoming trusted advisors.
“Selling isn’t talking people into things. It’s helping somebody make a decision.”
— Blair Enns
Topics Covered:
02:44 — Why Selling Expertise Changes Buyer Behavior. Blair explains why buyers evaluate experts differently from traditional salespeople and why trust starts forming before proposals are discussed.
06:20 — The Four Conversations Behind Every Buying Decision. A breakdown of the four conversations that quietly shape how buyers decide who they trust and hire.
07:41 — Expert vs. Vendor: The Positioning Buyers Feel Immediately. Why buyers instinctively place sellers into categories and how experts avoid becoming “just another option.”
11:36 — The Question That Unlocks Better Buyer Conversations. How focusing on a buyer’s desired future state changes the entire direction of a sales discussion.
15:51 — Why Multiple Options Change Buyer Psychology. Blair explains why presenting choices keeps you out of “convince mode” and makes buyers feel safer saying yes.
19:17 — Why Value Should Come Before Pricing. A conversation on why buyers think differently when outcomes are discussed before solutions or costs.
23:53 — The Hidden Power of Price Anchoring. How the first numbers buyers hear quietly reshape expectations, negotiations, and decision-making.
Key Takeaways:
“Selling isn’t talking people into things. It’s helping somebody make a decision.” — Blair Enns
“We rarely do the amount of thinking required to reason ourselves away from the starting point.” — Blair Enns on how anchors shape buyer decisions
Resources Mentioned:
- Mahan Khalsa — Referenced for the idea that “the sale is the sample of the engagement to follow” from his book Let’s Get Real or Let’s Not Play.
- Thinking, Fast and Slow — Referenced during the discussion on anchoring, heuristics, and buyer decision-making psychology.
- Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky — Mentioned for their work on Prospect Theory and anchoring effects that shape how buyers evaluate pricing and options.
- 2Bobs — Blair’s podcast co-hosted with David Baker, known for conversations on positioning, expertise, and agency growth.
- The Four Conversations — Blair’s book introducing a framework for selling expertise through authority, value conversations, and buyer trust.
Connect with Blair Enns:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/
- Website: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/
- Books: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/books
Connect with Mark Stiving:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/
- Email: [email protected]
Full Interview Transcript:
(Note: This transcript was created with an AI transcription service. Please forgive any transcription or grammatical errors. We probably sounded better in real life.
Blair Enns
I’m not saying that the sale happens in a series of four linear and discrete conversations. I’m saying it can be useful to think of the sale as a series of four linear and discrete conversations.
Now, having said that, four conversations, each conversation has its own objective and each conversation has its own framework or set of frameworks for navigating to that objective.
[Intro]
Mark Stiving
Welcome to Impact Pricing, the podcast where we discuss pricing, value, and the complex relationship between them. I’m Mark Stiving, and I run Boot Camps to help companies get paid more.
Our guest today is the one and only Mr. Blair Enns.
Here are three things you want to know about Blair before we start.
He is the founder of a company called Win Without Pitching, he happened to write a bestseller book called ‘Win Without Pitching’.
And he’s currently, we’re going to talk today about a different book of his called The Four Conversations.
Welcome, Blair.
Blair Enns
Thank you, Mark. Happy to be with you once again.
Mark Stiving
Yeah, and I forgot to say that you are also co-host of the Two Bobs podcast, which I listen to occasionally and it’s always very interesting.
Blair Enns
It’s a comedy show, isn’t it?
Mark Stiving
At times it certainly is.
The two of you guys get along great and I love it when you disagree.
That’s the most fun is when you disagree.
Blair Enns
Yeah, I think we, in the end, we almost always converge on maybe not in the podcast episode itself, but eventually if there’s a disagreement and we keep talking about it, we will eventually converge on the same point of view on almost every topic.
But one of the great things about the podcast is sometimes it’s the first time we’re talking about a topic and there is some disagreement and you know, I’ve known David for years, so we have a great rapport.
Mark Stiving
I have a person who comes on this podcast a lot, Stephen Forth, and we disagree a lot on things.
But it’s always about what’s the underlying assumptions. And you can get to a place where there’s agreement almost always. Almost always.
So, hey, let’s talk about your book. ‘The Four Conversations’. First off, what’s the subtitle? I don’t have it in front of me. Bad Mark.
Blair Enns
A New Model for Selling Expertise.
Bad Blair for not sending Mark a copy of the book.
Mark Stiving
That’s okay. Give us a little bit of a background for it.
Blair Enns
What is it about? The true story is Win Without Pitching is a training company. It’s a sales training organization targeted to professionals historically coming out of the creative and marketing space, but our audience has broadened over the years.
And I’ve always or long wanted to put our framework, our model into a book. So even though it takes me many years to write a book, as you and I were talking before we hit record, it’s like, I’ve written a few books. I don’t know how to do it. I’ve long wanted to write this book.
It took a long time to publish it. And really the goal of it was to get the model out there in the public domain.
And as the subtitle implies, a new model for selling expertise, I believe there’s something about the sale of expertise that is different from the sale of goods or more transactional services that merits a different way of thinking about selling.
Mark Stiving
Hmm. What’s unique?
First of all, there’s lots that’s unique about it, but what is it that requires a different selling technique?
Blair Enns
Well, in any sale of expertise, the sale is the sample of the engagement to follow.
And I think that’s a bastardization of something Mahan Khalsa said in his book, Let’s Get Real or Let’s Not Play.
But at the time of writing the book, I didn’t know where I’d gotten that quote from. But when you’re, let’s look at it from the buyer’s point of view, if you walk into a coffee shop and the barista is rude to you and has no customer service or is just outright rude, you don’t extrapolate from that experience to the quality of the product.
If you’re talking to a SaaS salesperson and they’re coming at you with the end of quarter discounts so that they can make their numbers and they’re cutting price and doing these other tactics that many of us are used to, you don’t particularly extrapolate that experience to the quality of the SaaS that you’re buying.
But when you’re dealing with a professional who’s delivering the expertise, you’re really paying attention to how they show up in the sale and you’re trying on what it’s like to work with them.
Therefore, they have to sell from a position of high integrity.
They have to, or should, I believe, avoid some of the more traditional sales tactics that might be perfectly appropriate to employ in other domains where a little bit of collateral damage is just fine.
When you’re selling expertise, you can’t really have any collateral damage because the buyer is looking at buying a relationship with you.
Mark Stiving
Can I say that’s fascinating and I’m playing in my own head the way I sell. And by the way, I got to tell you that I don’t sell.
I take a phone call and I talk to them about their pricing problems and I help them understand their problems deeper than they’ve ever thought about their problems before.
And I never tell them, I say, hey, you can go try this or try that, but they don’t understand what that really means yet.
But in truth, it’s never selling.
Blair Enns
Well, it’s never selling if you view selling as the act of talking people into things, which I do not.
If you view selling as a act of facilitation of looking for those that you can best help, offering paths forward, helping them as best you can in an unbiased manner, choose the decision that’s right for them without ever knowing what’s really right for them.
We can come back to that topic because I really believe that No matter how good a salesperson you are, you’re never going to uncover all of the trade-offs that this person needs to make in the decision you’re asking them to make.
So you put options in front of them and you facilitate a discussion on the pros and cons, and then you respect the decision that they make and you’re there to help them make a decision that’s in their best interest.
That’s not talking them into anything, that’s helping somebody make a decision.
So from that point of view, you’re selling.
Mark Stiving
Yes, but okay, I’m totally with you. I’m totally with you. I’m selling.
So what are the four conversations and which of the four conversations did I just have with my client?
Blair Enns
So we’ll have to come back to the client.
Maybe I’ll describe the conversations and you tell me which conversation you just had with your client.
Mark Stiving
Okay.
Blair Enns
So four conversations.
Now, as I say, right at the beginning of the book, all models are wrong. Some are useful.
And that comes from somebody who’s famous for effectively just that quote, a statistician, an author.
So I’m not saying that the sale happens in a series of four linear and discrete conversations. I’m saying it can be useful to think of the sale as a series of four linear and discrete conversations.
Now, having said that, four conversations, each conversation has its own objective and each conversation has its own framework or set of frameworks for navigating to that objective.
And in addition to frameworks, there are principles in the book. Principles are the ideas that you embody as you’re using a conversations framework to navigate to its objective.
So it’s a model.
The model is, we view the sale as a series of four conversations, and the model contains frameworks, objectives, frameworks, and principles.
The first conversation is the probative conversation where your objective is to prove your expertise and move in the mind of the client from this relatively powerless position of just another vendor to the more powerful position of the expert.
That’s the first conversation. It’s the most different from the other conversations because it’s the conversation that happens without you present.
For this one only, the idea of a conversation is a bit of a construct. It is your reputation preceding you. And there’s a lot wrapped up in this idea of the probative conversation, your business strategy, your positioning, how you prove your expertise in the public domain and move from just another vendor to the expert.
And you drive inbound inquiries with you in the expert position.
Mark Stiving
What you’re really saying with the probative conversation is, is someone actually going to call you and ask you any questions or talk to you in the first place?
Blair Enns
Or are they just going to send you an RFP along with three or four other experts that they’re also considering?
Or do they think, based on their exposure to your thinking, maybe they’ve read one of your books, Mark, or they listen to your podcast and they reach out and they think, no, Mark’s the guy. I want to work with Mark.
And even if they have to go get some other bids, you are the advantage player. You’re the one they really want to work with because they recognize and value your expertise.
So the probative conversation doesn’t always happen, but when it does, it drives inbound inquiries with you in the power position.
Makes sense?
So that’s not the conversation you just had with your client because this is the conversation that happens through your agents of thought leadership and referrers primarily.
Mark Stiving
So before you said that part that said this happens without me, I was going to say that was my conversation.
Blair Enns
So remember that objective of the probative conversation, the conversation that happens without you present. The objective is to move from the powerless position of vendor to the more powerful position of the expert.
And that objective becomes the secondary objective or a derivative of it becomes a secondary objective in each of the three subsequent conversations, which are all proper person to person conversations.
So the second conversation is the qualifying conversation. I say that if you have any experience with sales, you have an understanding that the qualifying conversation is a vetting conversation.
You are vetting the lead to see if an opportunity exists and then determining the next steps while maintaining that expert position in the relationship that you worked so hard to obtain in the probative conversation.
Now, a corollary to that is if the probative conversation didn’t happen, And you go into that qualifying conversation with the client seeing you as just another vendor. Then in addition to qualifying that client, vetting the lead to see if an opportunity exists and determining the next steps, you are also trying to obtain the high ground of the expert in the qualifying conversation as well. How do you do that?
You use the framework and embody the principles.
So you don’t spend a lot of extra effort on it. You’re just keenly aware of the facts. That as of this moment in this qualifying conversation, the client sees me as just one in a sea of many alternatives and they don’t see me as meaningfully different from the others.
So you might test the client a little bit. There’s some things that you might do to try to obtain the high ground.
We can come back to that, but let’s stay focused on the primary objective. This is a vetting conversation.
Mark Stiving
So real quickly, one of my, one of my good friends who’s a sales director, he would always say money authority need, money authority need, right?
And so those were his qualifying criteria. Do you have money? Do you have the authority? Do you have the need?
Blair Enns
And add timeframe and you have the BANT, which is the IBM model from the seventies, which is basically the, it’s the, almost everybody’s qualifying conversation is some version of BANT, budget, authority ,need, timeframe.
Mark Stiving
Yeah. So the one thing that, that isn’t in there, maybe we put it into need, but at least for me is, do you have a problem I can help with and that I want to help with?
Blair Enns
Yes.
So instead of need, what we call need, we call it desired future state and implied in the clients. So the desired future status, what does the client want? What do they want to be true in the future?
What’s the better version of themselves that they are buying in the future that they’re buying? Now implied in that is, is there a fit between their need and our expertise?
And so you have to make a decision on that when you uncover desired future state or what others might call need.
Mark Stiving
Yep. Okay.
Blair Enns
Yeah.
So we could spend the rest of this conversation talking about any one of these four conversations, but that’s the second conversation. It’s the first person to person conversation. Once you qualify them in, the next step is to move to the third conversation, which is the value conversation, which is right in your sweet spot.
And the objective of the value conversation is to determine the value that you might help to create and the share of that value that you might command in the form of fees. while maintaining the expert position in the relationship.
So in the value conversation, we’re setting pricing guidance, not price, we’re setting pricing guidance based on the value to be created without having discussed or thought deeply about solutions or costs. right in your wheelhouse?
Mark Stiving
That’s absolutely perfect.
Can I just say that’s the perfect answer, right?
I mean, I don’t need to know your costs or your solution or your product in order to know how much value you’re going to get.
Blair Enns
Yeah.
Mark Stiving
And in turn, how much you might be willing to pay to get that value.
Blair Enns
I often say, I think I could make you a better salesperson, particularly in the value conversation, if I could reach into you and take out anything that you had to sell.
If you had nothing to sell, And you just followed the four step framework of desired future state. What do you want? KPIs? What will we measure? Value? What’s the value of hitting these KPIs and getting what you want?
And then the fourth step, if I could help you do all this, what would you be willing to pay? And you don’t ask the open-ended question. That’s just in the name of the step.
If you did that with nothing to sell, you would come across as a natural salesperson because now you’re not thinking about matching what the client just said to this product that’s on the shelf behind you.
You’re just listening to the client.
It’s a four-step framework that’s all about the customer, has nothing to do with you, has nothing to do with your products, your services, your costs.
It’s like, oh, you want to create that much value. These are the metrics of success. If we could help you do this, would you an investment at this level? Does that make sense?
No. How about this much?
Well, what were you hoping to spend?
Okay, now we have a range. Now I’ll go back and I’ll think about solutions. Actually, you’ll think about, you’ll deduct profit, then you’ll have cost, then you’ll think about solutions, and then you’ll come back with your proposal.
And the fourth conversation is the closing conversation.
The objective of the closing conversation is to help the client select and commit to a path forward while maintaining the expert position in the relationship.
Again, that secondary objective of keeping the high ground.
So select and commit to a path forward implied in that is the idea that you’re going to put options in front of your client.
Now, if you’re, you’re trying to position yourself as the expert, as the advisor that this person really wants to work with, should you be in a position where you’re trying to talk somebody into something?
Now, if you’ve got one solution, what I call a take it or leave it proposal, here’s my solution.
Here’s the price, take it or leave it. You’re going to go into convince mode. If you have multiple solutions, you can stay in this more vaunted position of the respected advisor, the trusted advisor and say, there are multiple ways that we can do this.
Let me walk you through each option and let’s talk about the pros and cons of each.
And then you help the client decide.
Mark Stiving
It is rare that I hear something that shocks me when I’m talking to a guest on this podcast.
And that just shocked me. I dearly loved what you just said.
So we often talk about why you want options, why you want good, better, best.
And, you know, people are going to take the one in the middle. Maybe they’re not going to look at competitors.
But what you just said was absolutely brilliant, which is I don’t have to go in with the attitude that says I’m going to convince you to buy the thing I’m selling.
I’m going to help you choose between the three things I’m selling.
Blair Enns
Or the fourth thing, which is buy nothing from me at all. Right?
And obviously I’m not going to dwell on that fourth option, but I’m going to respect the fact that you, the buyer, you have a fourth option, which is like buy from somebody else or don’t buy at all.
Mark Stiving
Yeah. I just thought that was brilliant. I’d never thought that before. So.
Blair Enns
Thank you.
Well, it’s, you know, as you know, we’ve talked about before we hit recording, like these, these topics of pricing and selling, it’s really hard to disentangle them.
It’s really hard to talk about pricing without talking about selling. It’s hard to talk about selling.
If you’re not talking about how you show up in the sale, are you showing up like this needy vendor who’s trying to talk, trying to kill something so you can eat?
Or are you modeling the trusted advisor that you’re proposing to be to this person by giving them options, talking about the pros and cons, helping them make a decision and respecting their decision?
Mark Stiving
Yeah.
I think that’s a, that’s so brilliant.
Okay.
So I want to go back to my conversation. I think I was between number two and number three.
Blair Enns
between the qualifying conversation and value conversation?
Mark Stiving
Yes.
And I don’t think it was quite a value conversation because I rarely go figure out what the value is to the client, even though that’s what I teach them to do. Right.
Blair Enns
Yeah.
Mark Stiving
I rarely do that. And I don’t do it because it seems so ridiculous. Right.
So let’s say for instance, that you’re a hundred million dollar company.
There’s zero doubt in my mind. I’m going to put multiple millions of dollars in your pocket.
So how much would you pay for multiple millions of dollars of profit?
It’s nowhere near what I charge, right? I’m going to charge 0.1% of that.
So it’s just like embarrassing to do that.
Blair Enns
It’s awkward at first, but let’s say you’ve already decided what the prices are.
Let’s say you’ve productized your services and you price the service or the product and not the customer, or maybe you price the customer.
You’ve got like bands of pricing bands of depending on the size of the customer, you’re going to infer value creation from the size of the business.
So you already know where you’re going to charge.
So if you fully productize that way, you can go right to a closing conversation, right?
You don’t have to retreat to customize a proposal.
But in that moment, if you have a value conversation and say, let’s say I’m the salesperson, you’re at the a hundred million dollar company plus, and we uncover in a value conversation that if you get everything that you want and hit the KPIs that I had you dream about.
I had you think big and you hit those KPIs, we determine that there’s $10 million a year in net new profit.
And let’s say I have a solution that’s $100,000.
So it’s a drop in the bucket. But I might say to you, listen, Mark, if I had a solution for you that created that 10 million in net new profit on a recurring, annual recurring basis, do you think that’s worth a $2 million investment?
What’s your honest reaction right now?
Mark Stiving
So as a general rule, I shoot for 10%, not 20%, but I’m with you.
Yeah, it’s like, I’d consider it.
Blair Enns
So I say 2 million and you say, Blair, my budget’s 200,000.
And I might continue to say, okay, yeah, that’s a great ROI. 200,000, you’re gonna return, I’m horrible at math, what’s that, 50 to one?
An ROI of 50 to one? What about 1 million? What if I had a $1 million solution? Would you entertain that?
$1 million with a high degree of confidence that we’re gonna hit these outcomes.
And you say, I might entertain something as high as the $500,000 range.
So I start at 2 million, I go to 1 million, you walk me down to 500,000, you’ve told me your budget is, what did I say, 200?
Mark Stiving
200.
Blair Enns
So I say to you, okay, well, let me go away and think creatively and expansively about the different ways that we might help you create this value.
And I’ll come back to you with some options in the 500,000 to $200,000 range.
Now let’s say my solution was actually somewhere in the middle. I wanna sell a $300,000 solution and you say your budget’s 200,000. I’ve got you entertaining the idea of a $500,000 solution, right?
And you know the psychology, you know how all of this works. I come back and I recap with my proposal and I recap the value conversation and including the part where I said, Hey, would you pay $2 million one time for a solution that returns $10 million a year?
And you said, no, I asked you, would you pay a million? You said, no.
Then you begrudgingly said, maybe you might consider something in the $500,000 range.
And then I’m probably gonna say, unfortunately, I don’t have a $500,000 solution, but I do have a really compelling $425,000 solution.
So we’ve gone from the anchoring effect has worked. It’s done its job.
I anchored in the value conversation.
You brought me down to 0.25 of what I anchored at X. You got me down to 0.25. I’m going to give you three options.
The highest one is going to be typically slightly less than the high anchor that we ended the conversation on. So slightly less than 500,000, it’s at $425,000.
So every number just keeps getting better.
So I show you the $425,000 solution. I say, this is the most elaborate, highest degree of certainty that we could deliver this value. It’s only $425,000.
Let me explain what’s involved. And you’re looking at, well, that’s, well, that’s more, that’s interesting. Yeah. So now I’m nudging you to think better. Then I go to the $200,000 solution.
I say, here’s what it can do for 200,000. And you go, well, that’s a little disappointing in the context of what we just talked about.
Now I have this other solution and it’s only 295,000. It’s only 50% over your budget.
Now, in the context of the conversation we just had, and the preceding value conversation. I have moved your safe zone from your budget, $200,000 to the middle because of the principle of extreme disaversion. And I got you to try on, it wasn’t 2 million, wasn’t 1 million, wasn’t even 500,000, it was only $425,000. And I got you to mentally engage and to see the benefits of that solution.
And I moved your safe zone from your budget to the one in the middle, because now the danger associated with your budget option is the danger that you underbuy.
The high end is always that you overpay.
The safe zone is now in the middle.
Mark Stiving
Okay, that was brilliant. I just want you to know, I’m going to help the audience or the listeners for just a second.
We often talk about good, better, best, but when you think about prospect theory and losses loom larger than gains, it makes more sense from a sales perspective to present it backwards.
So present best, better, good.
And the reason is when you go from good, better, best, there’s both a loss and a gain.
When I go from good to better, the gain is the new features, the loss is the additional price. And so I overweight the price and I underweight the features.
But when I go backwards and I start at best and I work backwards, now when I take away features, that’s the loss.
The gain is the price, so now we overweight features, which is a much better thing for people to do.
Now, I always teach go best, better, good.
What I just heard you say is go best, good, better.
Blair Enns
You start with best because of the anchoring effect, which is Kahneman and Dvorsky.
So the anchoring effect is, for your audience, the idea that the first piece of information on a subject will skew the final decision on that subject.
So in price anchoring, when you’re selling, you want to anchor high before your client anchors low. I was anchoring in the value conversation at 2 million, then 1 million. than half a million.
And then I reiterated those anchors in the closing conversation.
And I said, I don’t have a half a million dollar option. I’ve got 425,000.
So that, that 2 million price and the 1 million, the 500,000, you think of them as decreasing anchors, they’re still anchors.
And I’m fond of saying the anchor is like the moon hanging in the sky, pulling toward it the tide that is the average settled price.
So that anchor sits there. When you start with the low option, that’s the anchor. And the idea, it’s the full name of the anchoring effect is anchoring and adjusting.
And it’s, we use, it’s a form of bounded rationality of like how we have to shrink the universe of information that we consider to be able to make a decision. So the way we work and Kahneman and Tversky pointed this out in the book, Thinking Fast and Slow, is we have engaged what they call the system one, where we use heuristics to quickly come up with a starting point for the decision that we’re going to make.
And the anchor is the starting point. Then we engage system two, which requires a significant cognitive load to reason our way from the anchor, And what all the science shows is that we rarely do the amount of thinking required to sufficiently reason ourselves away from whatever the starting point was.
So that’s a big reason why you want to start with the big number.
Mark Stiving
Beautiful. I absolutely love the discussion and the conversation. I’m going to go back to my conversation with my client for just a second, just so that you understand what’s going on.
My world freed up as soon as I didn’t care if I won a deal or not.
Blair Enns
Yeah.
You want to get better at selling? Three words, no sunk costs.
And the biggest sunk costs are emotional.
Mark Stiving
Yeah. And so I could say, here’s what I do. Here’s what the price is. You want to buy it? Great. You don’t want to buy it? Great.
Let me know. And it just didn’t matter.
And so the reason I said those words is because what you described sounds like a lot of work to me and I just don’t like to do work.
Blair Enns
My wife and I were watching a show about ‘Standup’ recently. And it’s like, I think what a lot of people who get into standup comedy don’t realize is how much work it is to write jokes.
Selling is work. And I think it’s one of the reasons why I love teaching selling, but after like two conversations, I lose interest in a deal pretty quickly.
So I’ve learned to outsource all the selling in my business, even though I teach it, but it’s like, I love it for a couple of conversations.
And it’s like, yeah, no, this, this is boring me. Somebody else do the work required to get this over the finish line.
So, I sympathize with you, brother.
Mark Stiving
No worries, Blair. We’re out of time. This has been a fascinating conversation, but here’s the last question.
What is a piece of pricing advice you would give our listeners that you think could have a big impact on their business?
Blair Enns
A piece of pricing advice? I would say pricing is a prison cell in your own mind of your own making.
And as soon as you understand that, like you, you think you live in this narrow band of prices that your customers will accept and your competitors think the same thing, but their band is different than yours.
Why?
It’s nothing more than the thoughts that are in your head. So I would have you ruminate on that for a little while.
Mark Stiving
Nice, nice. Blair, I could, in all truth, I’m going to tell the listeners, I should hit record like 20 minutes before we started because he and I just had a great conversation about life and stuff.
So we should do this more often.
Blair Enns
We should.
Mark Stiving
And hit record early so people can actually listen.
Blair Enns
And I’ll have you on my new podcast in two months, as I promised.
Mark Stiving
No worries, no worries. So if anybody wants to contact you, how can they do that?
Blair Enns
Winwithoutpitching.com, I’m also on LinkedIn. It’s my only social media presence. I’m hot and cold on LinkedIn.
So those are the two best places to find me.
Mark Stiving
Perfect. And to our listeners, if you enjoyed this, would you please leave us a rating and a review?
And if you have any questions or comments about the podcast, or if you want to get paid more for the value you deliver, feel free to email me [email protected]. Now go make an impact.
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