Impact Pricing Podcast

Natalie Louie is a Product Marketing strategist and leader who can build, scale, train and manage teams or roll up her sleeves to create and operationalize repeatable playbooks around positioning, messaging, go-to-market, product launches, customer journeys, training, competitive intelligence, win-loss analysis, customer and market research, sales enablement, pricing and packaging.  

She is a strong operator and strategist adept at working with C-level executives, board members and cross-functional teams to ensure alignment and execution excellence for projects inside and outside of her scope. She loves telling a great story where the customer is the hero. 

In this episode, Natalie talks about shifting pricing mindsets in the digital products space particularly under the subscription pricing model. 

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Why you have to check out today’s podcast:

• Learn how to introduce a new recurring revenue model into your pricing system without getting rid of your one-time transaction 
• Learn how to make a win-win situation both for you and the client you are serving when introducing a recurring revenue model both for your hardware and software products 
• Find out all about new product pricing in the introduction stage, how to set prices for the very first time 

“Businesses are budgeting for how am I going to budget to unlock new growth going to a new normal, that COVID-19 brought out. And it’s all about making the right investments in your business so that you can adjust to new normal, which is all going to be in the digital space and digital world.”  

– Natalie Louie 

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Topics Covered:

01:34 – Natalie talking about her new role at Zuora 

02:07 – What does Zuora do 

03:55 – How inconvenient doing your subscription manually can become  

05:58 – Difference between manufacturing and software companies getting into recurring revenue 

08:23 – What should you anchor your pricing on 

10:05 – Replacing a one-time transaction with a recurring revenue model 

14:07 – Introducing recurring revenue pricing slowly  

15:00 – Talking about ancillary products and how does this work 

18:03 – How to go about introducing new services you are not so sure about 

19:27 – Narrowing your choices and finding out the best pricing strategy 

22:03 – Mobility as a service in the car industry service 

24:19 – Discussing hardware companies’ challenge with subscription pricing and overcoming it 

25:57 – One big pricing advice she gives that can make a big impact on anyone’s business 

Key Takeaways:

“Because they know what their product is, I’m selling my product, tell me the price point. And I have to switch the conversation to say, actually, it’s not about your price points. In fact, that’s the last thing that you figure out when it comes to switching to a recurring revenue model, you first have to think about what are you selling? What do they find value in?” – Natalie Louie 

“Just because you’re ready, it doesn’t mean your buyers are ready. So, they have to be ready for a new model. And you have to show them right that you can deliver it and have those customer touchpoints, and then you’d be delighted. You need to make sure everyone’s on board. And that just takes time.” – Natalie Louie 

“Software for free and charge for the hardware, but flip it the other way. Because that recurring relationship and payment for that software – that can go into pretty much infinity.” – Natalie Louie 

“If you’re just introducing those new services, and you’re not even sure how you price it, or package it, or to use it, then give it for free, because the data you’re collecting is very useful. And so, while you’re giving it for free, you’re creating a direct relationship with your consumer for the very first time.” – Natalie Louie 

“But the idea is if you build this long-term relationship with a lot of value, and you’re able to grow that customer lifetime value, in the long run, you’re going to win out and you’re going to have more revenue, and you’re going to keep growing.” – Natalie Louie 

Resources / People Mentioned: 

• Zuora 
• My Fitbit 
• Siemens 
• Caterpillar 
• Honeywell 
• Adobe 
• Ford 
• Impact Pricing Podcast: Natalie Louie Episode #9 
• Impact Pricing Podcast: Natalie Louie Episode #41 

Connect with Natalie Louie:

• LinkedIn 

Connect with Mark Stiving:   

• Email: [email protected]
• LinkedIn

Full Interview Transcript  

(Note: This transcript was created with an AI transcription service. Please forgive any transcription or grammatical errors. We probably sounded better in real life.) 

Natalie Louie   

Businesses are budgeting for how am I going to budget to unlock new growth going to a new normal, that COVID-19 brought out. And it’s all about making the right investments in your business so that you can adjust to new normal, which is all going to be in the digital space and digital world. 

[Intro] 

Mark Stiving   

Welcome to Impact Pricing, the podcast where we discuss pricing, value, and the never-ending relationship between them. I’m Mark Stiving. Today. Our guest is the amazing Natalie Louie. Here are three things you learned about Natalie before we start. She was our guest on episodes 9 and 41. And she is our first three-peat guest. Awesome, Natalie. She was the head of Oracle Marketing Club Pricing Operations, a subscription-based business, and she was involved with the pricing aspects of maybe 40-ish acquisitions. She’s seen a ton. And she’s currently the Senior Director of Product Marketing at Zoura. Talk about the right company to be at. Welcome, Natalie. 

Natalie Louie   

Thanks, Mark. Yes, Third time’s a charm. I feel like these just keep getting better with you. 

Mark Stiving   

Well, this one will be good, too, I’m sure. So, you recently took a new role inside Zoura? Can you tell us about it? 

Natalie Louie   

Yes, I’m the Senior Director-Product Marketing. And in addition to owning some of our different product stack and personas that we go after, we’re also verticalizing. And I started taking ownership of our manufacturing vertical and helping a lot of those companies on their subscription journey. 

Mark Stiving   

So, in case everybody doesn’t know, Zoura does and I apologize for not saying this as nicely as you would. Zoura does billing for recurring revenue type companies? Was that even close? 

Natalie Louie   

Yes, that‘s a piece of what we do. And what we really do is we help people move from selling products to selling outcomes. So, you know, forward instead of selling, 

Mark Stiving   

That’s marketing blah, blah. 

Natalie Louie   

There’s the service, right? How do you turn all of your products into something of service? 

Mark Stiving   

I’m completely with you. But what I think about what Zoura is doing, Zoura is helping companies with all of the problems we’ve got where, I mean, let’s talk about Ford for a second, right? If in the old days, I would sell a car, and I would invoice a company, and they pay my invoice and world done the transaction’s over? Nowadays, that transaction goes on forever, right? If I’m going to sell you a subscription, or recurring revenue type business. And we’ve got to have a way to manage that ongoing transaction in a way that’s very different than we’ve ever managed them before. 

Natalie Louie   

Yeah, and Zoura gives that software of you have a pricing catalogue. So here are all the different ways you want to monetize and sell your mobilities to service, a one-time fee, recurring revenue fee. Is it monthly, is it annual, is it usage-based? Is it based on where you’re renting the car, time of day, city, geography, like there are so many different ways to price and package when you get into the subscription kind of economy world that you need software to do this because there’s a lot of complexity? And a lot of manual work that happens if you don’t, you can definitely do it manually. But it gets to a point where you’re growing as a business and finding success, you need software to help you. 

Mark Stiving   

I have a client who’s been in subscriptions for a very long time, they do it manually. And because they do it manually, it limits the number of things they can do. Right? So, it’s just painful. 

Natalie Louie   

It is, if you look at the data, right of different subscription economies, there’s the subscription economy index, which is what the Subscribe Institute tracks since 2012. Any company in the subscription business is growing six X faster and the S&P 500. So, six times faster. And then when you allow your subscribers the flexibility to make changes to their subscriptions, they grow three X faster. So, by changing, meaning, I want to pause my subscription. Right? During COVID, I put my subscription to my yoga classes on pause, right? And because they allowed me to do that until I think there’s a vaccine, I want to go back, they retain me as a customer.  If they didn’t allow me to do that, I was going to cancel my membership completely. And so, I’m still engaged with them. So how do you allow your customers to pause, add more users, add more features, functionality?  Like we the customer and consumer want to be in control. Will you allow that in a subscription business? Just grow a lot faster than you know, traditional S&P 500 companies. 

Mark Stiving   

Yeah, but by the way, I believe everything you just said 100%. So, companies who are doing subscription need to find a way to automate this. Don’t do it manually, completely with you. Now the rule that I really wanted to talk to you about is the fact that you’re taking on the manufacturing vertical. That should be a ton of fun. Now, let’s compare manufacturing. First off, when you say manufacturing, and when I say it, I’m going to assume we’re talking about some hardware type component. So, it could be a car, it could be a computer. There’s something physical there. Is that a fair assumption?  

Natalie Louie   

Correct. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Something that you’re selling that’s tangible. 

Mark Stiving   

Yes. Okay. So, we’ve got a tangible item. And then you come from the SaaS world where there’s nothing tangible and we’ve all thought about SaaS a lot, right? Many of us have thought about it and understand it. What do you think is the huge difference in manufacturing, trying to get into recurring revenue versus a software company trying to get into recurring revenue? Yeah, 

Natalie Louie   

I think about that all the time because there is some overlap. So, for companies that are in the high-tech software space, you’re kind of born near recurring revenue model world, you’re already thinking about annual billing, monthly billing and payments and collection. And for hardware, the manufacturers, they’ve never lived in that world, it was this product-centric view, where I have my product, I go through my distributors, my OEMs. And I sell it ultimately, to my customer. It’s a one-time transaction. And you could say, well, there’s a lot of manufacturers that are also high-tech, like the wearables like My Fitbit, oh, that’s hardware. But then are they software. And so how we draw the lines is basically on your subscription journey. Anyone that’s at the beginning, meaning I have no recurring revenue whatsoever. And I’m hardware, I put them into the hardware category because they’re at the beginning. How do I even think of making the shift from cost-plus pricing to value-based and usage-based pricing? What courses should I take? Right? How do I build the acumen and that intelligence and knowledge? And then for people that are born in high-tech, so you could be a hardware company, but you started as a high-tech company like you’re a wearable, or you’re a consumer medical device that was always on subscription, we put that under the high-tech space, you’re in that space, you already know what subscriptions are. And we’re trying to grow our subscription revenue. We’re trying to try different pricing, we’re trying to increase our retention rate, reduce our churn, they already know what all these metrics are like AR, MR, ACV turn. You don’t need to educate them on that. But they’re iterating and taking things to the next level to grow versus I’m just starting. Teach me what these metrics are, teach me what value-based pricing is. And so, it’s very different, where they are in their journey. And that’s kind of where I draw the line. 

Mark Stiving   

Yeah, I think the companies that you talk about with the wearables, they make a ton of sense, because they already understand subscriptions. They’re relatively new companies. When you think about a hardware company, even a new hardware company today, we always talk about pricing metrics, what am I going to charge for? And in a hardware company, the pricing metric is obviously the piece of hardware. Right? If I go into McDonald’s, the pricing metric is obviously a hamburger. So, I think part of the problem is there’s this item that just says, ‘This is what you’re going to charge for because this is what we make.’, and how do we get them off of that mentality? 

Natalie Louie   

Yeah, every manufacturer I speak to at the beginning, their first question is all about price points. How do you determine your price point? Because they know what their product is, I’m selling my product, tell me the price point. And I have to switch the conversation to say, actually, it’s not about your price points. In fact, that’s the last thing that you figure out when it comes to switching to a recurring revenue model, you first have to think about what are you selling? What do they find value in? Is it you know, for mobility as a service? Siemens healthineers, its health as a service, Caterpillar, it’s dirt moved as a service, Honeywell, people aren‘t trying to buy electrical hardware, they want energy as a service. So, what are your end consumers or buyers trying to buy? What’s that service they’re trying to purchase? And do they find value in it? Can they measure it? Can they articulate it? Can they control it based on their usage, that’s what you want to anchor pricing around because that’s what truly brings value. And that just throws everyone for a loop, right in manufacturing. And it’s funny because if you look at high-tech companies, we debate that all the time, very high-tech company I’ve been at or I’ve talked to you when it comes to pricing strategy, we will debate the pricing metric until we’re blue in the face. How do you package it? So that is number one, and then pick the price point that’s easy, right? 

Mark Stiving   

What you just said, you just answered the question but I’m going to ask it again so that you can talk about it even more. And that is I’ve had companies come to me and say we currently sell a product we want to go to subscription. Do we just divide the price by 36 and make that the monthly price and now we’re selling the exact same thing as a subscription instead of selling the piece of product or a piece of hardware? So, go ahead and beat that up for me. 

Natalie Louie   

Yes. Okay, so there are two ways to go about introducing recurring revenue that we’re seeing with manufacturers. And so, the one you’re talking about is I want to rip and replace my existing model, my one-time transaction, I want to completely get rid of that. And that’s almost a harder path people can get there. But it’s a harder path because you’re losing significant revenue. So, let’s say Caterpillar is selling those big construction cranes, you know, probably hundreds of thousands of dollars, that’s going to disappear overnight. And what’s going to happen is, not only is your revenue going to disappear but now your expenses are going to go up. Because you have to support a new business model, you need customer-success people, you need to figure out, you know, your pricing, your billing, you’re going to be sending out more frequent bills and have a lot of different customer touchpoints. A lot of people go manual first and just hire more headcount or investment software like Zuora to make it easy. And so, we call it swallowing the whale because I know in high-tech, the call swallowing the fish, right? You’re losing revenue, you have more expenses, get over the body of the fish, and then you start getting into, you know, profitability. In manufacturing, it is a bigger swing, you got to be prepared to swallow that whale. And so absolutely, they can move in that direction. But what I’m finding is, the easier way is, let me keep my one-time transactions. I don’t want to disturb that that’s working. I know it’s fading or disappearing. But how do I now start introducing new parallel recurring services, for instance, if I’ve got sensor data and I’m starting to collect how you’re using it, I can potentially tell when we need to send maintenance or fix that piece of equipment that you’ve purchased, ‘Hey, I’ve got a new service now, proactive maintenance, and my partners can go deliver that service.’ And so, but I’m going to use that data to spin out additional new added services. I’m collecting, you know, data on how you’re using the product, I can give you insights analytics that you never had before, on how you’re using my product. And so that’s exciting to people. And I would say for manufacturers, it’s almost better to start with the introduced new parallel recurring revenue services that are really sticky, and get that recurring revenue machine going. And then start thinking, ‘Okay, now that people are liking new services, we’ve got more data, it may change how you even want to sell my product’, because you’re creating a direct relationship now with your customers and how they’re using it. And that data and insight is huge. And figuring out how you want to unlock your new recurring revenue strategy. Whether you rip and replace your one-time sales are keep pushing out new services, 

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Mark Stiving   

I love the idea of the ancillary new services that go along with it. So, I don’t have to shoot my one-time sales. The other thing that can happen is, if I want to try to move my one-time sales to subscription, I don’t have to do it overnight. I can do it slowly and say I’m going to do 10% of my business as a subscription this year. And leave 90% with the big sales and the cash flow coming in. And we can get there more slowly. 

Natalie Louie   

And that’s the way to do it. Because you also have to educate your customers and manufacturers, they have to you know, educate their entire distribution channels and partners, right, the really big ecosystem. And just because you’re ready, it doesn’t mean your buyers are ready. So, they have to be ready for a new model. And you have to show them right that you can deliver it and have those customer touchpoints, and then you’d be delighted. And then all your distribution partners and channel ecosystem, they’ve got to be ready to go and deliver that as well. And so, you need to make sure everyone’s on board. And that just takes time. 

Mark Stiving   

Let me ask you, I hadn’t even thought about this until you brought it up. But let’s talk about the ancillary products for a second. And let’s assume that those ancillary products are not physical, right? So, there’s no cost of goods sold. It might be data or content, something like that, insights. Absolutely. 

Natalie Louie   

Caterpillar, we know how you’re using our machine, we can tell you how fast and how much dirt you’re moving per hour per day, you know when it starts raining, how’s that going to impact and then you can build a better construction timeline. Now you see what this data is useful for? 

Mark Stiving   

Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. And so, one of the problems that I’ve seen lots of hardware companies have when they try to start charging for software, now forget the content piece for a second, they just try to sell software along with their hardware, they‘ve always had this mentality of cost-plus pricing. And so, I’ve got this chunk of hardware that’s got real cost of goods sold, I have this soft piece of software that has no cost of goods sold. So, I’ve got a customer that’s now negotiating, what am I going to do? I’m going to throw in the software, because I know I can’t discount the hardware too much. Do we find customers salespeople throwing in the recurring revenue piece, because there’s no real cost of goods sold there in order to get the sale of the hardware? 

Natalie Louie   

I would almost flip it the other way to say, when you’re starting to make this shift in this pivot, you actually sell them the recurring software, and you throw in the hardware. Because this whole idea is, I want the outcome of what the hardware supposed to do for me, right? Instead of me buying the electrical hardware, just give me the energy that I want, right? And so, like with Honeywell, right? That’s a business model that they’re doing. And so how do I now say, okay, you just pay it, it’s a win for your buyer because they don’t have to outlay hundreds of thousands of dollars, actually just pay me this monthly fee, this annual fee. And you know what we’re going to provide you with the hardware. And by the way, when the hardware breaks down, you don’t have to maintain it, will take that burden off, all of it. You don’t have to own anything, again, you just get the benefit of the services. And so yes, short term, you the company are going to take the hit. But the idea is if you build this long-term relationship with a lot of value, and you’re able to grow that customer lifetime value, in the long run, you’re going to win out and you’re going to have more revenue, and you’re going to keep growing. Because next year, you’ve already got that contract in place, you know where your revenue is coming from. Right? And it’s already in the books, you’ve got maybe a three-year contract, you don’t have to guess where the revenue is coming. And so yes, you the company have to be patient for that dip, as I say, you know, the whole swallowing the whale, but the customer, they win, say I don’t have to lay 100,000 I don’t have to do maintenance, I just have to get the benefit and the outcome of the services. I mean, it’s a win for them. 

Mark Stiving   

Yeah, I agree completely. 

Natalie Louie   

Software for free, right? And charge for the hardware, but flip it the other way. Because of that recurring relationship and payment for that software that can go into pretty much infinity. 

Mark Stiving   

Yes. Now what you just described is, if we’re going to try to take the thing that we sell and turn that into a subscription or recurring revenue, then I agree with you 100%. If I’m going to keep selling the piece of hardware, and then I want to sell ancillary services on top of that, that’s where I think salespeople might have a tendency to say, ‘I’m going to throw that in because I’m still trying to get my hardware sale.’ 

Natalie Louie   

Yeah. And it’s good to have kind of a path forward. And so, if you’re just introducing those new services, and you’re not even sure how you price it, or packaging or they’re going to use it, and give it for free because the data you’re collecting is very useful. And so, while you’re giving it for free, you’re creating a direct relationship with your consumer for the very first time. And you can see how are they using it? What are they doing with it? You’re collecting that data and that’s really rich. And traditionally, manufacturing companies, your channel partners own that data. So again, there’s little tension there, right? You have to be careful of how do I create that direct relationship with the end consumer gets that data, yet not upset my channel partners? Because they traditionally hold that relationship and they monetize that. And so, there’s a whole bunch of different ways to manage that as well. 

Mark Stiving   

Cool. Probably the biggest thing, the biggest challenge hardware companies probably have as they’re going to go to a subscription, the recurring revenue model is understanding what does value mean to the customer? Because they’ve always said to themselves, I sell this piece of hardware. But now all of a sudden, they have to step back and say, what was the solution? Or what were the benefits that the customer was trying to get? And how do I sell those benefits instead of selling a piece of hardware? How do you teach hardware companies how to do this?  

Natalie Louie   

So, with a lot of these companies, it starts with number one, figuring out what are the different ways that you can roll out your pricing strategy, like what are the different value-added pricing strategies out there? Right, because they’ve got one trick in their playbook cost-plus pricing. So okay, well, you can do one time, you can do annual recurring, you can do monthly recurring, you can do usage-based, and when you start getting to usage-based, it’s all this whole new world. Wouldn’t it be nice to only pay for what you use, right, and that’s the whole point? The concept around usage-based pricing but as you start digging to usage-based pricing, there are different ways to do it. Whether it’s based on, you know, time, day, tiers, you know, the more you use, the less you pay, or maybe you want to prevent someone using your product too much. So, the more they use, you know, it gets more expensive. There are different ways to cut that cloth. It gets into so many different ways that I find a lot of manufacturers will have a ton of ideas. Once they start getting educated on it, they start taking classes, they start working with experts, such as yourself on what is my world of possibilities, they get really excited. And they go, ‘Oh my god, I have 100 different ideas.’ But then they get stuck in the ideation phase for a year and a half factor. Talk to a woman for Cisco. And when she was there, she said, a year and a half we debated ideas, so many great ideas. And well, how do you test, how do you know which one works? We don’t know. I don’t know how we’re going to test it. And then that’s where people start failing. And so, we’re kind of, Zuora helps it, and take your best ideas. What are your five or ten best ideas or, are all hundred tested? So how do you test it? You need software, test it, put it in front of your customer? Are they buying it? Are they using it? Oh, they’re not? Okay, that strategy is out the door, try another one. It’s all about that iteration, the agility and flexibility to iterate and test and get that feedback, whether you’re interviewing them, or you’re rolling it out and seeing if they’re buying and clicking. That data is what’s going to form how you’re going to narrow down your choices and really find that perfect pricing strategy. 

Mark Stiving   

Yes. And so, the problem that I’m trying to get to, and I’m hoping that you can help me with this. You said the words Ford mobility earlier, right? Ford sells cars. And somehow, they had to switch their mind from saying we sell cars to we sell mobility. I read in a book once probably one of my favorite examples. Instead of buying a refrigerator. Wouldn’t you like to buy access to fresh food when you want it? And so, it’s this mindset shift that says, ‘I used to buy a product, what I really wanted to buy as these benefits.’  

Natalie Louie   

Yeah, the reason why you’re seeing these automotive companies make that move is because the Ubers and the rest of the world know that and they say, I don’t want a car, I just want to get from point A to B. Get me there and I’ll just pay for the services. So now these big car manufacturers and Zuora works for eight of the top ten, you know, automotive companies globally, is they’re like, ‘Okay if I don’t make a shift, I’m going to lose out to the rest in the Ubers of the world.’ And so now how do I think about mobility as a service, and sell the fact that they just want to get from one destination to another, or, you know, while they’re using that car, they want to charge it, but they don’t want to have to pay for gas at the moment, right? So, they can buy a subscription to an EV charging station. And every time I drive by one of these charging stations, you know, I’ll get alerted once there. I can go used out to pull out my credit card, I paid a subscription, you’re keeping track of my usage, you bill me automatically, hands-free, don’t need my credit card. And so, you know, these are the types of things that they’re rethinking and reinventing. And then I mean, pretty soon we’re going to have self-driving cars out there. So, I don’t have to drive the car, don’t have to own it. You know, I just want the service of someone picking me up and bringing me to my next destination. 

Mark Stiving   

And I don’t have to have a parking place. 

Natalie Louie   

Yeah, exactly. I mean, we saw with Porsche, you don’t have to pick up the car, right? Porsche subscription, they’ll come drop it off to you, the Porsche that you want, when you want, and they’ll take care of all the maintenance. 

Mark Stiving   

I’m going to spend my money and do that one day. 

Natalie Louie   

You have to. 

Mark Stiving  

I do. Another challenge that I see hardware companies dealing with a lot when it comes to this recurring revenue or subscriptions is, I’ve got a real cost of goods sold. And the CFO is sitting there saying, ‘There’s no way we’re selling this at below the cost of goods sold.’ So, if we do some quick math, and I’m going to pretend that we used to sell something that’s $360,000. I said it that way so I could divide that by 36 and get to $10,000 a month, and yet my cost of goods sold might be $100,000. How in the world would I take $10,000 a month for something that’s going to cost me $100,000? I don’t know if I’m going to get my money back. This is a big challenge that hardware companies deal with a lot with subscriptions. 

Natalie Louie   

They do. And even high-tech companies that were making that shift, like when Adobe made that shift from selling the, you know, Adobe Photoshop CDs, to now selling it as a service. And what those companies have to do is they have to get organization alignment and get everyone bought into the fact that you’re going to take that hit and project it. And so, what does that hit? You know, how much is your revenue going to go down? If you’re a public company, you’ve got to announce it, get the street-ready, but tell everybody, ‘Look, there are a long-term path and strategy to actually grow even bigger once we get through swallowing the fish or swallowing the whale.’ And we get through that hump because we’re only going to grow and look at Adobe, they’re there. They’re thriving, they’re growing. A lot of those companies that swallow that pill they’re now on the growth path. And with manufacturers, you know why I’m seeing a lot of them say, ‘Okay, let me start with ancillary services, and do parallel recurring revenue streams, get 20 or 30% of my revenue in the books from these new additive services so that’ll kind of buffer, then okay now let’s maybe do a complete transition.’ And but you’ve got to tell everybody, everyone has to be prepared, you can’t suddenly, you know, next year, we rolled it out, and then you see your profits, you know, go down the tubes, it’s we actually projected it, you know, we work with the CFO office, we’re telling everybody, everyone’s aware, and there are no surprises. So, it’s that communication piece, telling people, it’s part of your plan, you expect it. And in fact, this is going to make sure that you’re set up for long term growth and success and to be relevant and competitive. 

Mark Stiving   

Nice. Natalie, I think we’re going to have to start wrapping up, but I got to ask the final question. What’s one piece of pricing advice you would give our listeners that you think could have a big impact on their business? 

Natalie Louie   

Yeah, I think especially now, with year-end, people are not only doing holiday shopping and budgeting, what I’m going to spend for Christmas presents, but businesses are budgeting for how am I going to budget to unlock new growth going to a new normal, right, that COVID-19 brought out. And it’s all about making the right investments in your business so that you can adjust to a new normal, which is all going to be in the digital space and digital world. So how do you price for something like that? 

Mark Stiving   

Yeah, the world is changing. Awesome. Natalie, thank you so much for your time today. If anybody wants to contact you, how can they do that? 

Natalie Louie   

Yep, they can find me on LinkedIn. I’m also on the impact pricing website so they can find me there as well. So many different ways to find me. 

Mark Stiving   

Oh, that’s right. I didn’t say this, Natalie is an official SMEE subject matter expert for Impact Pricing. She’s awesome. She’s brilliant. So, thank you. Episode 98 is all done. Can you believe we’ve done 98 of these? Would you please leave us a review? This is to our listeners. Would you please leave us a review? Eloisa on Apple podcast said: Awesome content! 

“Looking forward to more episodes.” 

And I am hugely appreciative to Eloisa. Thank you so much. Don’t forget to join our free community at championsofvalue.com. This is where I post all of our free content. So, the memes, the blogs, videos, the podcasts, anything we publish for free shows up there. You can find that at community.championsvalue.com. If you have any questions or comments about the podcast or about pricing in general. Feel free to email me markatimpactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact!