Impact Pricing Podcast

Ep141: The Role of Pricing for Growth and Profit with Jeff Robinson

 

 

Jeff Robinson is the CEO at Revolution Pricing LLC and Author of Price for Growth!

In this episode, Jeff shares how pricing should be a strategic effort in driving a company’s growth. He talks about how pricing executives should think in terms of long-term margin, having growth precedes profit.

 

 

Why you have to check out today’s podcast:

  • Find out why pricing people should be at the front and center in driving value conversations for strategizing a company’s growth
  • Learn how to look at the customers’ value long-term and generating profit for life rather than looking out for profit for a year and ruining your long-term profit
  • Discover the two macro goals of pricing so you think of it as a long-term profit-generating engine

              

Think about the growth aspect of your business before you think about the profit aspect of your business. Think about the engine of growth before you think about harvesting profits. 

Jeff Robinson

           

Topics Covered:

01:31 – How he started his pricing career

02:34 – Sharing his story of why he stayed with PROS for almost two decades

04:46 – What happens when salespeople have discount authority

06:20 – Different pricing models

07:36 – Are salespeople the best ones to determine pricing strategy?

10:18 – What he thinks of price differentiation

11:53 – Fairness in pricing – what it really means

15:19 – It’s almost never really about pricing; it’s about value

17:58 – Can pricing people make or add more value as an internal consultant?

20:40 – What he’d like to see happen at the level of Pricing Director

23:06 – Pricing’s two different kinds of macro goals

26:14 – What growth strategy should look like

27:40 – Win, keep, grow – what does it refer to

29:42 – Jeff’s pricing advice that can greatly impact one’s business

         

Key Takeaways: 

“Price differentiation is not only fine; I think it’s desirable. But I think you got to do it in a way that you can maintain a good customer experience across your customer base.” – Jeff Robinson

“Customers hate that they’re getting priced based on their willingness to agree. If it’s not fair, you’re going to get a lot of blowbacks. If it is fair, then they’ll play along. Look at the airline industry; you have tons of differentiated pricing. But I think most people understand the game; they understand there’s some objectivity behind where the pricing is coming from.” – Jeff Robinson

“Pricing needs to be at the forefront. I think pricing should be integral to the entire growth strategy of the company. And the reason I say that is because I think they have the most data. And I think they theoretically have the capability to understand all these intersections, if that makes sense.” – Jeff Robinson

“Can pricing people make or add more value as an internal consultant? Yeah, definitely. Because as an internal consultant, they can operate at a level where they can add a lot of value, and they don’t have to go into every minute detail. They can go into the level of detail that’s needed.” – Jeff Robinson

“The whole idea is if you think about growth precedes profits, then from a pricing perspective, pricing leadership should be thinking about growth first, and then thinking about profits when the time’s right.” – Jeff Robinson

                   

People/Resources Mentioned:

               

Connect with Jeff Robinson:

                    

Connect with Mark Stiving:   

                          

Full Interview Transcript

(Note: This transcript was created with an AI transcription service. Please forgive any transcription or grammatical errors. We probably sounded better in real life.)

Jeff Robinson  

Think about the growth aspect of your business before you think about the profit aspect of your business. Think about the engine of growth before you think about harvesting profits.

[Intro]

Mark Stiving 

Today’s podcast is sponsored by Jennings Executive Search. I had a great conversation with John Jennings about the skills needed in different pricing roles. He and I think a lot alike, if you’re looking for a new pricing role, or if you’re trying to hire just the right pricing person, I strongly suggest you reach out to Jennings Executive Search. They specialize in placing pricing people; say that three times fast.

Mark Stiving

Welcome to Impact Pricing, the podcast where we discuss pricing, value, and the possibly controversial relationship between them. I’m Mark Stiving; today, our guest is Jeff Robinson. And here are three things you want to know about Jeff before we start; he is the author of a new book ‘Price for Growth’ which I had a chance to skim this morning. Very interesting. He’s been an executive of PROS for 17 years. He certainly understands pricing. And in 2020, he went out on his own with a new pricing firm called Revolution Pricing. Welcome, Jeff.

Jeff Robinson  

Thanks, Mark.

Mark Stiving 

Hey, how did you get into this world of pricing?

Jeff Robinson  

Great question. So, it goes back to my first three times I took economics in college. I failed the first two times, the third time around, and finally got it right. I ended up getting the highest grade in the class. And I looked around, and I said, hey, maybe I can do something with this. And when I went out to get a job after I got my economics degree, nobody wanted to hire an undergrad economist, so I went to MBA school and went to work for a software company. And a few years later, somebody told me about this company called Pros. And what they did was they sold pricing optimization software, which used economic principles. And I thought, ‘No way, I got to check out this company.’ So, I joined PROS. And I thought, now I’m finally going to be able to use all these great economics principles I learned. And then basically for the next 20 years, I’ve just kind of been evolving from there.

Mark Stiving  

Nice. And so why did you stay? I mean, 17 years, 20 years is a long time at one company.

Jeff Robinson 

Yeah, so it was actually two different stints. I was one of the guys they call a boomerang. I was there for 10 years. When I got to PROS the first time, my first task was to help the company take their airline pricing software and revenue management software into other industries. And so, I was really in charge of partnerships. So, I started working with a company called Anderson Consulting, which later turned into Accenture. We built a great partnership, we were ready to kick it off and run, and then 9/11 happened, SARS happened. And people started closing their checkbooks. And so, we kind of just went off trying to sell pricing software. The next thing I knew, we had a few big customers who wanted to pay us a lot of money to help them build pricing solutions. And I was able to enjoy a lot of growth during the first few years at PROS. Finally, in 2007, we went public. And I left the company a few years after that; I won’t get into why but I wanted to do something different. And so, I went with a small company called Advanous. I was there for a couple of years and then decided I wanted to go do something else and looked around and interviewed everybody. And PROS offered me a good job. So, I went back. And within a couple of years, I was head of product. And then after that, I was General Manager of our transportation logistics industries. And then finally I realized I needed to go do something on my own. So that’s kind of my story.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, yeah. Well, the reason that you’re on the podcast is you had commented on an article that I put up on LinkedIn on sales discount authority. And the article had talked about something more contoured once said to me, which was he doesn’t think salespeople should have any sales discount authority. And I find that pretty challenging and interesting. But you replied and said, ‘Hey, it’s brilliant.’ And not only that, it improves margin, and it takes away the, or it improves the buyer experience. Do you have any evidence or do you want to talk about that a little bit so we can all understand your thinking?

Jeff Robinson  

Yeah, so I mean, I’ll come at it from a couple of different perspectives. So first of all, if you just think about what happens when salespeople have negotiation authority, so when a salesperson has negotiation authority, and you’re the customer, all of a sudden you have a job, you know before you could just buy something. Now, you have to worry about whether you’re getting the best price. So, you go into it, it’s kind of like when you go buy a car, you know, for me, it’s always been an anxious proposition to go buy a new car, because I know I’m going to have to like, spend hours trying to negotiate the best price. And even when I’m done, and I’ve knocked down the price by, I don’t know, a few $1,000, I walk away wondering, did I really get the best price? So, if you translate that you think about just from a customer perspective, what does it take on their part, when the sales rep has negotiation authority, especially if you realize that there’s really no objective discount driver behind it. It’s just the discretion of the sales rep. I mean, it’s just extremely frustrating. So, there’s that angle.

Mark Stiving 

So let me pile on with that for just a second. And I remember back in the ’90s; we had Saturn cars. And the big deal about Saturn as it was no-haggle pricing. You walked in, and you paid whatever the price was on the sticker, they weren’t going to negotiate. And buyers seem to love that. They said, ‘Wow, this is just the way I want to buy a car.’ Now, everybody didn’t go that way. Right. All the other car manufacturers didn’t do that. But Saturn did. And they seem to get a ton of press and goodwill from that.

Jeff Robinson 

Yeah. And, you know, I think you could look at that as an example of, did it really pay off for Saturn? I don’t know. You know, I don’t know, the jury’s out. I think for some companies, they’re so entrenched in the business practice of negotiating and even, especially when they train their customers, that then maybe they can make the conversion back. Definitely, there are examples like that all over the place where a company’s tried to change their pricing model from a fixed pricing world to either a discretionary negotiating pricing world or maybe even something where there’s, they’re running coupons or discounts or different ways to lower the prices. Yeah.

Mark Stiving 

Well, the other side of that, are we going to negotiate, though, I’m a strong believer in price segmentation. And how do I charge different customers different prices? And if I truly trusted and believed my salespeople, they’re the closest to the customer and could possibly dictate or create or calculate my customer’s willingness to pay, which then says giving them negotiation ability is really them getting closer to capturing willingness to pay.

Jeff Robinson 

Yeah, so there’s a lot of truth to that. And, you know, if you look at my bio, I spent a lot of years managing salespeople and actually selling myself, you know, like, whenever I was a sales manager, of course, I wanted unlimited power to negotiate the price. And a lot of times I got it and, you know, I’m not sure I’d made the best decisions for the company or not. But when you think about it, are our sales reps in a good position to understand the customer? Yeah, they’re close to the customer, I think a lot of times, they’re in a good position to understand the customer. But then again, you step back and you say, ‘Do you want sales reps running your pricing strategy?’ So, think about this, Mark, for you to be very good at running a pricing strategy, you need a rapid feedback loop, where you’re testing something in the market, and you’re kind of getting information back from the data as fast as you can. Well, if you put a sales rep in the middle of that, you don’t know the conversation sales reps are having. You don’t know how hard they tried to negotiate a price. So, you’re kind of putting much in the data feedback loop, right? So that’s one argument for why you don’t want sales reps in the middle of a pricing strategy. And there are plenty of sales reps, I’m sure, they’re master salespeople, they’re probably the best people that could get the best price out of a customer. I’m not sure they’re always incentivized to do that. Most sales reps that I’ve been involved with, they’re pretty risk-averse. And so, they’re much more incentivized just to get the deal at all costs and move on, right? So, what they’re trying to do is they want to get the revenue with the least amount of effort so they can move on to the next customer or move on to the next opportunity. So, I guess to your point, yeah, I think there’s a lot of truth to sales reps being close to the customer being able to figure out willingness to pay. But the counter argument I would say is, do you really want them determining your pricing strategy or getting in the way of the data feedback in pricing being your pricing strategy? I have another point.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah. Before we jumped on, I just want to call on here. And I would say that I think it’s theoretically true that salespeople could get closer to the willingness to pay, but I actually don’t in practice that happens. I think in practice, they’re trying to get the deal closed as fast as possible. They’re using every lever they possibly can pull. And one of the levers is whatever discount authority we’ve given them. That’s a lever they’re going to use, and it’s easy to use; they’re going to pull it. I’m with you on that. But we go ahead and make your other point.

Jeff Robinson 

Yeah, pricing is an incredibly easy lever. And I guess the other point is, so we’re talking about price differentiation. I think price differentiation is not only fine, I think it’s desirable. But I think you got to do it in a way that you can maintain a good customer experience across your customer base, right? And so, what happens is, if you can differentiate pricing by differentiating the product, or what you’re selling, in terms of the total value proposition, then you can do it in a way that’s fair, that customers don’t feel like they’re getting screwed. If all you’re trying to do is kind of put your finger up in the air and figure out, how much will Mark pay? I think I’ll pay more. So, I’m going to charge him a little more. Well, customers hate that. Customers hate that they’re getting priced based on their willingness to agree. I mean, and so if it’s not fair, you’re going to get a lot of blowbacks. If it is fair, then, you know, they’ll play along. I mean, look at the airline industry; you have tons of differentiated pricing. But I think most people understand the game; they understand there’s some objectivity behind where the pricing is coming from.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, fair is a really weird word that we could talk about for hours because I don’t understand it very well. But in my mind, when we do pricing, our job is to make our customers perceive it as fair. And so, if we’re doing something that they perceive as unfair, we’ve probably made a mistake.

Jeff Robinson 

Yeah, I totally agree. And when you think about what fairness really means? It’s not objective. It’s exactly what you said, ‘Does a customer feel like they’re being treated fairly?’

Mark Stiving 

Yeah. Wait, let’s jump into a much bigger topic for a second. And let’s talk about the role of pricing because we brought up pricing strategy. And first off, let me just toss you the big softball. What do you think of the role of pricing in companies today?

Jeff Robinson 

I think it’s evolving. I think it’s evolving in the right direction. But I think it’s evolving too slowly. And I’ll tell you what I mean by that, here’s the thing that really bothers me. When you think about everything that pricing touches, I mean, you can’t have a sales strategy without a pricing strategy because every sale has a price attached to it, right? When you think about communicating value and communicating price, that’s partly the job of the marketing department. Well, can you really have marketing and a marketing strategy without pricing? I don’t think so. You know, you look at cost, you look at finances. Can you have a financial strategy without pricing? You can just go through and you see that pricing really is tied into all these different functional areas of the company, and it really matters. And one of the things that I point out in my book is, it’s not just the per-unit profit margin that really matters. It’s how you leverage price to be able to accomplish big strategic things like becoming the leader in your market, the fastest-growing market share leader in your market? That’s something that really matters, right? So, with that, I’ll say, I look at most companies. And it’s kind of tragic, that pricing seems like it’s been relegated to kind of a back office function, where they’re in charge of margin, policing margin, making sure that, you know, sales reps don’t run amok. And I don’t think margin police is the right role for pricing. I think pricing needs to be at the forefront. I think pricing should be integral to the entire growth strategy of the company. And the reason I say that is because I think they have the most data. And I think they theoretically have the capability to understand all these intersections if that makes sense.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, so in a lot of ways, I agree with that. And then, in a lot of ways, I find it really challenging. One of the things that I often think about when I teach pricing and work with companies about pricing, it’s almost never about pricing. It’s almost always about value. How do customers perceive value? How are we communicating value? Are we even building products and packaging products that have value in the way that customers want to make those choices? And so, when I think about that value piece, that feels to me like it really needs to belong in product management in the product team, the people who are trying to figure out where we’re going to build next because they’re the ones who should know the value of the product to the marketplace. But what that really says to me is that those people should own and understand pricing well. Instead, we tend to put a pricing department out there that’s managing spreadsheets and price lists. And, you know, we’re watching for variants or maybe managing an escalation path. But it isn’t the big strategic stuff of what we should build and how do customers get value?

Jeff Robinson 

Yeah, yeah, you’re bringing up an incredibly important point. And I totally agree with it. I’ve seen it for the last 20 years, it’s funny that your experiences are very similar to mine. So, when you think about it, you go in, and you talk to a company about pricing. Like you said, it’s almost never really about pricing. They want to talk about something else. Now the question is, you know, who’s the right person to determine what the value of the product is going to be? And who’s, so yeah, it makes a lot of sense that product people should own that. But at the same time, who should be informing the product people about what kind of impact the different pricing strategy is going to have on the impact of the company. So, based on some value differentiation, it’s just, you know, I would be satisfied, if we got all the product people and renamed them pricing people and gave them the role, you know, to manage across the entire scope of the company, the full growth strategy of the company. But I guess the point I’m trying to make is, whether it’s, you know, pricing or anybody else, it should be a coordinated, strategic effort rather than done in a silo. And I think my big objection is that things get done in silos. And like you said, if you think about which silo the pricing team generally finds itself in, it’s not that glamorous front-end stuff that’s really driving growth for the company. It’s too many times an administrative set of tasks, or they’re the margin police or something like that.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, I think you and I are completely in agreement on this. Now, one of the things that I find about most pricing people is that they don’t understand the value of their products because you have so few pricing people and so many products and product managers out there, that there’s no way they could understand that. And yet, if you think about what you and I do, and no, we actually understand pricing and pricing strategies, and customers willingness to pay and how they perceive value, I think it would be phenomenal for pricing people inside a company to be like you and I. And their job then is as internal consultants, how do I help sales people learn about value, sell value? How do I help product people design products and add more value? How do I help marketing people figure out what are the most important value statements? we’re actually talking about value and not features? So that feels to me like a really big deal in the role of pricing.

Jeff Robinson 

Yeah, I mean, I think that’s, that’s kind of what I was trying to say. I do think that I mean, take your example, you know, can pricing people really understand the value of all the products? Well, I mean, you look at some of them, I mean, we did business with a company, who had to price 300 new products per day. So, tell me how a pricing team is going to be able to get their arms around the value of 300 new products per day, it’s just too much they can’t do it, right. So, what they really have to do is they need to bubble up to a higher level. And when you’re thinking about value differentiation, and you’re selling 3 million products, well, it probably doesn’t make sense to go through and do 300 million value studies, it probably makes more sense to bubble up and say, ‘What is really the, what’s the differential reasons why companies buy from us versus our competitors,’ right? It’s not because of this one, out of 3 million products over here or this collection of 25 products. It’s because maybe of a service feature, or maybe the selection we’re able to offer or the availability or some of these higher level, company level differentiators. That again, your point is, I think, can pricing people make or add more value as an internal consultant? Yeah, definitely. Because as an internal consultant, they can operate at a level where they can add a lot of value, and they don’t have to go into every minute detail. They can go into the level of detail that’s needed. But still, not only should they be consultants, but I think they should be driving the conversations. And that’s if you get to it, Mark, that’s really what I think pricing should be doing that I don’t think they’re doing enough of. I think it’s more of a reactive role. I think it’s seen as a support role. And I think it should be more front and center and they should be driving the conversations about how should the company be strategizing their growth. What new customer segments should they be selling to? What avenues for revenue expansion should they be pursuing to existing customers? What should they be doing to help minimize customer churn? You know, those types of conversations? I think they should be leading.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, I think that’s spot on. Now, if you were to put yourself in the shoes of let’s pick a title or a role, let’s call it a director of pricing. So, they don’t run everything, but they run a lot. What do you think they should do differently? How do they get out of this day to day managing the tactics and jump into the strategy side?

Jeff Robinson 

I’m glad you’re asking that question. Because I think that’s exactly the right question. And I think that’s where it has to start. So, whether you’re a director of pricing, pricing manager, VP of pricing, you know. I would like to see that if I were in that role, I’m starting to have strategic conversations with other functional executives that are not being head. You know, I would want to have a situation where we’re looking at growth scenarios. So, if we were able to change our growth rate, from 10% to 12%, what would that do for our ability to dominate this market? You know, let’s have that conversation. Let’s start having conversations at the executive level. I think, when pricing is seen as kind of the margin police role, then nobody really wants to talk about it. You know, it’s funny because it seems like for years, we’ve been trying to get on this, pricing has been trying to get on the CEO’s radar, right? I mean, we have books, webinars, everything about how you can make pricing matter to the CEO, how you can get it on the radar. But most of those books talk about value, and they talk about profit, but they’re not talking about growth; they’re not talking about the big strategic things that most CEOs really care about. That’s what I think, I would like to see happen at the level of director of pricing, I’d like to see it, by the way, in my book, I say, I think all pricing titles should be renamed to pricing and growth, like the VP of pricing should be the VP of pricing and growth, or be the VP of growth. Because right now when the sales guys see the VP of pricing, they think, ‘Oh, that’s the VP of killing business. That’s the VP of losing customers, you know. Guys, they don’t want to talk, if that makes sense.

Mark Stiving  

Yeah. Oftentimes, we’re called the sales prevention team.

Jeff Robinson  

Exactly that, yeah. No one wants to be the VP of Sales prevention.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, exactly. So, I think that makes a lot of sense. What you’ve essentially said is you think the strategic direction of pricing should be dictated as not only are we trying to capture margin, but we also need to capture growth. And you can think of growth as a long-term margin. Right? What are we getting on profit dollars over the long run?

Jeff Robinson 

Yeah, yeah, I would say it may be even slightly. See, I think, sometimes pursuing margin is a great aspiration. And if you put it the way you put it, so if I’m looking at long-term, if I look at the value of a customer long-term, and I think about all the profits they can generate for me, I think that’s very important. If I’m thinking about next year’s profits, I may make a decision that’s going to ruin my ability to get long-term profits. If I do a price increase that makes a customer feel like they’re not being treated fairly, I may lose 20 years of profits from that customer, right? So, not only do I think it’s margin plus growth, I think a lot of times, you know, it’s margin versus growth. I like to think of pricing as two different kinds of macro goals. One is, how do you acquire customers and really think of it as like a profit generation engine, right? So, you want to make investments so you can work, acquire customers, so you can generate profits in the future? You know, the other role is, think of it I call it profit taking, right? And if you think about what profit-taking means in the stock market, profit-taking in the stock market means we’re going to sell it means we’re going to get out, right? We’re going to take our money and run. Well, it’s kind of like that in pricing. You know, you can take profits, you’ll get customers who will pay high prices for a quarter or a year. But are you ruining your long-term profit generation engine by doing that? I think you need to think about when’s the right time to grow profits or to take profits versus the right time to grow that profit engine, that profit-creation engine. And the reason I say that is, if you step back and look at all the fastest-growing companies over the last 20 years, you know, think about companies like Amazon, Google, Netflix, Domino’s Pizza, good food, Shopify. These are not companies that were employing margin expansion strategies. These are companies that were 100% employing growth strategies; they were worried 100% about building the engine to create profits more than the ability to extract profits out of their existing customers, right. So, I think, and I’m not trying to swing the pendulum too far away. But I think it’s a major consideration that should be at the forefront of every pricing executive’s mind. And I just, I haven’t seen it over the last, I mean, I see it in, I don’t know, one out of 20 companies. That means 95% of the companies I’m talking to, seem just way too myopically focused on margins. Anyway, that’s it.

Mark Stiving 

I think that was brilliant. And just to add on, you’ve heard the Jeff Bezos quotes from Amazon, he says, your margin is my opportunity.

Jeff Robinson  

Jeff Bezos, I mean, he’s done a lot of things that were dead right on. I have a quote; I have one of his quotes in my book where he’s talking about elasticity studies. And he said, ‘Yeah, we run elasticity studies all the time. And they tell us we should raise our prices. But we don’t want to do that because we want the customers to trust us.’ I mean, and he said that years and years ago, and now look, what’s happened, you know, how many of us put our trust in Amazon? I mean, today, I’ll confess, I don’t even look at other providers. I go to Amazon, if the price seems halfway reasonable, click purchase, you know, because of the experience that I’ve had over the years, I don’t feel like I’m getting screwed on Amazon. Yep. Anyway, I think that’s just an example of what a growth strategy should look like.

Mark Stiving 

Nice. And as I skimmed through your book this morning, I noticed that you articulated three, and I’m going to use my words for this. But you articulated three revenue buckets that companies need to worry about. And what I love about that is that’s exactly what I wrote in my new book, as well. So, my new book is called Win Keep Grow. It’s for subscriptions. But you’re doing repeat business, which is essentially the same thing. Yeah. And you have to win customers; you have to keep customers; you have to grow customers.

Jeff Robinson 

Absolutely.

Mark Stiving 

And so those, I love the fact that you put those in your book.

Jeff Robinson 

Yeah, the funny thing is, right after I released my book, I saw your book come out, and I’m like, those are the right words: win, keep, grow. Right on, you know, but what does win, keep, grow? What does that refer to? That refers to building a growth engine? Right? Like, nowhere in your book title does it say squeeze another percentage margin out of any particular customer segment? I’m not saying it’s not available for the taking for many customers, many segments. But I think you’re right on; that’s where the focus should be. That’s where the first focus should be if you think about it, and I’m actually writing another book right now, Mark; it’s going to be out in the next month or two. But one of the things that I point out in this new book that’s coming out is growth should precede profits, right? It shouldn’t be a lot of companies; they feel like profitable growth is one action that happens all at once. So, I’ve got some quotes that you’ll see. But I think one of the quotes is, ‘You’ll never go broke by charging a margin.’ Well, yeah, you won’t go broke on a particular customer, but you may miss the opportunity to get a lot of customers if you try to charge too high margins. But the whole idea is if you think about growth precedes profits, then from a pricing perspective, pricing leadership should be thinking about growth first, and then thinking about profits when the time’s right.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, I think that’s spot on. I’m not sure that I’ve thought it through enough to say that I agree. 100%. But I think that’s really close, in many, many cases that go through my mind. So, Jeff…

Jeff Robinson 

By the way, if we learn that we don’t agree, it’s easy, we just change our minds, you know?

Mark Stiving

Exactly. Jeff, this has been fascinating. We’re already over time, but I’m still going to ask the final question. What’s one piece of pricing advice you would give our listeners that you think could have a big impact on their business?

Jeff Robinson 

I think I’ve already given it. Think about the growth aspect of your business before you think about the profit aspect of your business. Think about the engine of growth before you think about harvesting profits. That would be my one piece of advice.

Mark Stiving 

Excellent. Nothing like consistency.

Jeff Robinson  

Well, hopefully, hopefully, there’s consistency there.

Mark Stiving 

Jeff, thank you so much for your time today. If anybody wants to contact you, how can they do that?

Jeff Robinson 

You can hit me up on LinkedIn. I think you’re going to provide the link, but it’s jeffrobinson4, that’s the subdirectory on LinkedIn. The other, hit me up via email, jeff@revolutionpricing.com.

Mark Stiving 

Perfect. Thank you so much and Episode 141 is all done. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this, would you please leave us a rating and a review wherever you download this podcast? Those are very valuable to us. And finally, if you have any questions or comments about the podcast or pricing in general, feel free to email me at mark@ impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact!

Mark Stiving

Thanks again to Jennings Executive Search for sponsoring our podcasts. If you’re looking to hire someone in pricing, I suggest you contact someone who knows pricing people. Contact Jennings Executive Search.

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