Impact Pricing Podcast

Ep131: Obstacles to Implementing Value-Based Pricing with Alex Hoffman

 

Alex Hoffman is an articulate commercial leader with extensive experience in addressing profitability challenges through Commercial Analysis, Pricing / Business Strategy, and Portfolio Management.

In this episode, Alex Hoffman underscores how pricing tools, insights that pricing experts develop, and the key decision-makers play a crucial role in value-based pricing. And most importantly, effectiveness in communicating those important insights has to be taken into consideration.

 

Why you have to check out today’s podcast:

  • Find out the six features that are critical to setting pricing that could maximize the capture of value from customers
  • Learn how to capture the value that’s created through product innovation and understand the critical nature of the message
  • Understand the crucial role of marketing in pricing

         

Using market research, using your past campaign performance, figure out the economic value you bring to the customer. The first thing you need to do is figure out the value, and more importantly, does the customer perceive that value.

Alex Hoffman

      

Topics Covered:

01:45 – Alex’s weird and circuitous way of getting into pricing

03:05 – What got him interested in pricing that he stayed with it

04:24 – Sharing successes at implementing value-based pricing in Telstra

07:34 – How Telstra uses conjoint in pricing

09:18 – Using conjoint for churn

10:48 – Honing your marketing message for a specific segment

12:56 – Marketing as a critical role in pricing

14:32 – The hard part of focusing on both cost and value when pricing

16:06 – Looking at the subscription model from the ground up

18:02 – The idea of cross-subsidization

19:37 – Interesting concepts around cloud-based gaming that could help boost the margin

20:20 – Talking about the disparity between the sophistication of the pricing tools, pricing teams’ insights, and those who make the critical decision

23:00 – The law of agency kicking in

23:39 – The hard part of having the ‘burden of proof’ displaced

25:21 – How things can work if you have a support network

26:12 – What destroys margin across the entire Telco industry

28:20 – Alex’s best pricing advice that can greatly impact one’s business

     

Key Takeaways: 

“And as you get involved in pricing, you really understand the critical nature of the message. So, we’re about capturing the value that’s created through product innovation and the like. But if the messaging and the marketing doesn’t adhere to that, you get nowhere.” – Alex Hoffman

“You need to ensure that you’ve got strong input and buy-in into the marketing, as well as the pricing, the pricing strategy, the financial analysis. Marketing is a critical part of the role.” – Alex Hoffman

“With 5G coming on board now, cloud-based gaming is dynamically growing, and customers who are game addicts, by the very definition do not necessarily behave in a rational way, at particular points in time when they need their surging speed; they are prepared to pay what I would call almost surge-like pricing. And so, you can develop all sorts of interesting concepts there that could help boost the margin.” – Alex Hoffman

      

People/Resources Mentioned: 

        

Connect with Alex Hoffman:

        

Connect with Mark Stiving:   

                          

Full Interview Transcript

(Note: This transcript was created with an AI transcription service. Please forgive any transcription or grammatical errors. We probably sounded better in real life.)

Alex Hoffman 

Using market research, using your past campaign performance, figure out the economic value you bring to the customer. The first thing you need to do is figure out the value, and more importantly, does the customer perceive that value.

[Intro]

Mark Stiving 

Today’s podcast is sponsored by Jennings Executive Search. I had a great conversation with John Jennings about the skills needed in different pricing roles. He and I think a lot alike. If you’re looking for a new pricing role, or if you’re trying to hire just the right pricing person, I strongly suggest you reach out to Jennings Executive Search. They specialize in placing pricing people, say that three times fast.

Mark Stiving

Welcome to Impact Pricing, the podcast where we discuss pricing, value, and the sometimes relationship between them. I’m Mark Stiving; today our guest is Alex Hoffman. And here are three things you want to know about Alex before we start. He has been in pricing as long as I have, and we’re not telling how long that is. He’s been involved in pricing at Telstra for more than 22 years. Oops, I guess that was a hint. And he’s a huge jazz fan. And I can actually see his CD collection on the wall behind him right now. Welcome, Alex.

Alex Hoffman

Thanks, Mark. Good to be with you. And good morning, or good afternoon to the audience, wherever you may be.

Mark Stiving 

Well, the good news is, it’s a podcast, so they can listen whenever they like.

Alex Hoffman 

Yeah, that’s true.

Mark Stiving 

So how did you get into pricing?

Alex Hoffman 

You know, in a weird and circuitous way, actually, my background was law and economics. I completed law and economics degrees at the University of Melbourne, here in Australia. And I worked for quite a few years in mid-sized law firms. What really made me hate the experience was the way pricing was structured. Strangely enough, because everything worked to the tyranny of billable hours. And having to account for every hour, even when you weren’t really delivering value to the customer, was a very oppressive and unhappy experience for me, let’s put it that way. So, I then started to look around for jobs and corporates and landed a legal role within Telstra, Australia’s incumbent telecommunications company, and still the biggest in terms of market share, and certainly in terms of profitability. And then, within a couple of years, I got offered a pricing role leveraging my kind of economics background, and I started to work in pricing.

Mark Stiving 

That’s pretty fast. I think you were the first lawyer I’ve ever had on the podcast.

Alex Hoffman 

I’ll put a disclaimer there, my background only. I haven’t practiced for more than 20 years.

Mark Stiving 

Okay, good. So why do you stay in pricing? What is it about pricing that excites you?

Alex Hoffman 

It’s, in a way, it’s kind of a Cinderella in the corporate. But it’s such a critical function. Because of the impact of pricing on profitability, and I don’t need to go into the academic studies; we know that. There are plenty of studies that show that a 1% of the one-point movement in price can result in 10, 11 points movement in the margin. The impact and the idea of being at the intersection between marketing and pure finance where you can shape strategy — that really gets me interested.

Mark Stiving 

That is pretty fascinating. And by the way, I don’t know why we needed academic studies to show us that, because you take any company and say, what’s your profit margin? Yeah. And if you could increase price by 1%, without impacting any of your costs, what’s that do to that profit margin?

Alex Hoffman 

Lower your profit margin, the bigger the impact.

Mark Stiving 

Exactly, right.

Alex Hoffman 

So, it’s an obvious one.

Mark Stiving 

We don’t need those academics to tell us that. So, nice. So, one of the things you told me is that you are going to share some successes and some failures of attempts at implementing value-based pricing at Telstra, and I love anybody willing to talk about their failures. So, let’s go but let’s start with success so you can look good.

Alex Hoffman 

Alright. Let’s talk about some of the successes. So, during my time in Telstra pricing, one of the areas that I managed was mass-market wireline. So, this is really looking after all of the fixed broadband pricing for the mass market, which includes retail and small business customers, and this was done in almost a perfect store environment where you had intensive…

Mark Stiving 

Question, real quick, by retail, you mean to consumers to houses?

Alex Hoffman 

…consumers, but small businesses, as well. Small business was very much the behavioral dynamics, at least at the lower end, the mid-end of small business is similar to the consumer.

Mark Stiving 

Yep. Okay.

Alex Hoffman 

And this is done in an environment where we have massive competition at the time, still do. And more importantly, something that is very Australia specific, specific to the Australian market. The transition to NBN, or our National Broadband Network, is a public sector initiative, and it basically means that the fiber, providing all the wholesale to carriage service providers, is run by a government monopoly. And Telstra as the incumbent with its massive infrastructure, the copper in the ground, would have to sell this off to the monopoly provider. And essentially, everybody becomes a reseller or a marketer, if you like, you no longer have that incumbent advantage because much of those upfront barriers, upfront cost barriers to entry are gone. So, it was really important to understand the value that you bring to the customer in that environment. And in the past, pricing was very much a dark art. And you didn’t require a lot of rigor when there wasn’t a lot of competition. Suddenly, because the margins were being eroded, it was important to understand where we could lift the price or change the plans. Now, most of the pricing is, I guess, two features in telecommunications, it’s subscription-based, so you’re paying monthly charges. But it’s also nonlinear in the sense that there are a number of additional attributes that you get the customers to pay for, such as an activation fee and installation fee. And in the past, where we would not have unlimited data plans, you charge for data or a speed; you charge for a speed overlay to increase and boost your plan’s speed. That was the way that it worked. And what I guess one of the important things that we started doing during my time in the fixed, in the wireline space was the use of conjoint, and particularly adaptive conjoint, where we would commission market research companies, consultancies to run conjoint, with our extensive customer base. Now, Mark, I didn’t know whether I should go into the details of conjoint analysis and what it does.

Mark Stiving 

We’ve done this in the past, I actually have a course on conjoint available on our website, and I’m a huge fan of epic conjoint. I know there’s a bunch out there. I’ve used epic, and they helped me out with my courses. And so that’s pretty cool. Hopefully, all of our listeners are aware, and if not, they can go listen to another podcast, right?

Alex Hoffman 

I’m not going to go into the details, but I’ll talk about how we use that in pricing. I guess the six, probably six features that were really critical to setting pricing that could maximize the capture of value from customers. One was understanding the relative importance of different product features. So how relevant is something like maybe having an entertainment inclusion in Telstra TV or subscription to an air support service? How relevant is that to a purchase decision to a trade-off decision by the customer? Acquisition uplift. If we add an entertainment feature to a bundle plan. What’s going to be the service acquisition? What’s going to be the service uplift? Churn impact. Let’s say we add more data to a plan, is there going to be an impact on our base? Are we going to be able to reduce churn? Plan mix shift. If we start to adjust the pricing at the high-end, how does that impact the mix across all of the plans in our suite? Sure, if that adds, you know, if we make a particular feature change or a price tweak, is our share of that adds relative to the competition going to change? And are we going to take it from a sub brand of Telstra and I must explain that Telstra does have a bunch of brands. And then the volume impact.

Mark Stiving 

So, I’m curious about this because as you’re listing some of these things, I’m playing in my mind, what the conjoint study looks like, and how this will work out? And so, the first question is, conjoint, in my mind is usually done to say, am I going to purchase something? So how do you use conjoint for churn?

Alex Hoffman 

So, the features that we developed included trade-offs at over a whole range of price points. Within the choice model, we are able to estimate the potential reduction not only in the acquisition, but the reduction in our own, impact on our own customer base. The models were sophisticated enough to do that. Now, of course, there are simulations; they’re not real customer behavior, they’re models, and there’s a lot of assumptions in the models, as well, particularly before you move to adaptive conjoint. For instance, things like brand awareness, for instance, a lot of the conjoint models assume 100% the same brand awareness. But over time, we shifted that as well. And we were able to model with different overlays of customer awareness. So, the models were sophisticated enough to include impact both on potential on the whole customers on the whole market in Australia and our own base.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, I guess I could see how you could look at customer preference on conjoint. And if you have that calibrated to past churn rates or past churn, you could say, yeah, this probably is what’s going to happen if we do the following. Now, one of the things I love about conjoint is the ability to do segmentation because you’ve got a few 100 people who filled this out, and no two of them filled it out the exact same way. So, what did you find in terms of different segments, and who cared about what? What did you think about that?

Alex Hoffman 

Mark, let me talk about the fixed broadband market because that was my remiss. And this is where a lot of the fascinating insights came out. Essentially the map, what we found was that the broadband market in Australia was bifurcated. Speaking broadly of segments, there was a very large, let’s say, it was basically a 50/50 split. But half of the broadband users in Australia cared deeply about attributes such as network quality, network security, and brand. They needed to work with a reliable brand. The other half were fixated on price and cost. And so it was, it became very obvious that Telstra could not play in the second half of the market because to win over those customers, we would have to be 10, 20% below certain competitive pricing. And that meant effectively 30 to 40% reductions in our current price; we were all… what we were trying to operate within 10 to 20% premium to our top two competitors. And then, when you move to the other quadrant, you could find what segmentation allowed us to do was then to find pools of opportunity with competitor customers, who also can focus not on price, but the quality of service. But our message was just not getting through. It might have been in those particular geographies; there was a lack of P&I spin. It might have been that the Telstra messaging was focused on other attributes, apart from the attributes that the customers indicated were important to them. So, it helped us to hone the marketing, that segmentation helped us to hone the marketing message and understand in which geographies we needed to play to win over those extra customers.

Mark Stiving 

Okay, so let me see if I can say this. And it isn’t just so darned obvious; it isn’t funny. We do conjoint; we find a market segment that really cares about one or two really key features, we find people in a geography that really care about those one or two features. And we change our marketing messages to talk about those one or two features. Now, doesn’t that just make sense?

Alex Hoffman 

It’s a completely obvious thing. But it’s amazing how much and this is what I found in Telstra; it’s amazing how much the marketing is not really set to a deep understanding of focus on customer needs. Yeah, it’s not a bottom-up process. And as you get involved in pricing, you really understand the critical nature of the message. So, we’re about capturing the value that’s created through product innovation and the like. But if the messaging doesn’t cohere with that, if the marketing doesn’t cohere with that, you get nowhere. I’ve ended up in situations where we designed the most elegant bundles based on what the conjoint was showing was important to the customer groups that we were targeting. And yet, when you got to the marketing, the marketing guys would often focus on completely different features. And so, it never kind of percolated. So, you need to ensure that you’ve got strong input and buy-in into the marketing and the pricing, the pricing strategy, the financial analysis, and that sort of thing. So marketing is a critical part of the role.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, I think that’s absolutely true. When I often talk about pricing, or I got into pricing, you start to realize, look, pricing is really about understanding how buyers value our products. And then once you and I start learning how to do that, we realize why doesn’t marketing know that? Or why doesn’t product management who’s designing the next product know that? Right? And so, this concept of value becomes so important. And yet it feels like it’s a mystery in our companies and the companies we deal with.

Alex Hoffman 

It’s much easier to focus on cost, which is ultimately what… When you look at Telstra’s strategy and a lot of it today, it is around building the right network and developing particular product innovations, especially in E-health and e-commerce, and leveraging the remote networking trend that COVID has accelerated. But much of the other parts of the strategy is about cost, and it’s about cost cutting. It’s not about how we go about optimizing the revenue part? That’s hard. That part is hard.

Mark Stiving 

It seems to me companies have to focus on cost. I’m not going to take that away from you. But there is no doubt they spend more time on cost than they do on value. And I think those two are the opposite sides. Now, I had the pleasure… one of my clients in the past was actually an ISP and ex-Telco ISP. And I found it fascinating because they’ve been in business for what, 50 years, 60 years, some huge number. And it never, first off, it never struck me that these guys are really running a subscription business. Right? Isn’t that obvious?

Alex Hoffman 

Every telco is a subscription business.

Mark Stiving 

Right. And then I had the chance to teach them about subscriptions, the way we think about subscriptions in software. And there was aha, after aha for these people, as we’re thinking about how to run subscriptions. So, I just found that completely fascinating. The people that I thought were going to know, you know, 100 times more than me about subscriptions, were truly learning, and it was fascinating. I loved that.

Alex Hoffman 

Yeah, it’s an interesting experience because when I was in Telstra I was involved in building, pricing for a new subscription business that we were launching. And it was very similar to an insurance product; I’m talking about Telstra’s Platinum service and platinum services, essentially an IT support service. So, what we found, again, through the market research that we did was by dint of the demographic and the fact that Telstra has a predominant market share amongst the older population, the older demographic in Australia. So, we had a lot of customers who were just not comfortable about setting up home computers and ensuring that the internet worked. So, they needed services, apart from the mom and dad operations that were being run on the street, something that was based on the Telstra brand, which is still a very trusted brand in Australia. And so that gave the opportunity to set up a service where Telstra techies would go out and support these customers. Now, there was one soft charge, of course, but you could build monthly subscriptions at varying levels with various value inclusions to assist individuals, and they would essentially start paying for peace of mind. So that was an interesting business. And that involves looking at the subscription model from the ground up.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, I think that’s fascinating. One of the things we often see in companies and tell me if you saw this at Telstra, even with the way it was, but we often see this in companies is the CFO says, I can’t lose money on a customer. And so, I have to make sure every customer is profitable. Now in a lot of ways, that’s an honorable position. But when you do anything like insurance, you say, I get it, I’m going to lose money on some customers, but I’m going to make a lot of money on all of my customers. And so, did Telstra as a subscription business, have trouble adopting that thought process?

Alex Hoffman 

I didn’t; I honestly didn’t see it, if anything. So, it’s, I think it was understood from the start that there would be a lot of cross-subsidization going on. And that, in many ways, is the story of Telstra in the past, and probably even today with the transition to NBN. But in the past, some areas were negative in the absolute sense. There were negative margin generating areas of the business, but it was understood that we had to maintain them for various reasons. And there was cross-subsidization going on. The principle was you look at the overall profitability within that business unit or within that, you know, product area, and you focus on that. But I would say that Telstra provides a lot of leeway, particularly when new businesses that it enters like e-health, it doesn’t expect to make an immediate, incremental margin on business ventures.

Mark Stiving 

That’s a healthy attitude.

Alex Hoffman 

You know why, but when I come to the failures, I think you’ll see the other side of the coin as well. So, I don’t think I’ll speak of anything that is not.

Mark Stiving 

Let’s hear one. Yeah, well, before you do that, I do want to point out one more thing. We did the same thing when I was working with my ISP in terms of figuring out what the segments are and who does what. And the thing I found so fascinating is that one of the segments they pointed out for the type of deliverables they needed was households with gamers in them. And it’s like the deliverable; the technology we have to give those guys is very different from a household with five streams of video running at once. And so, it was pretty fascinating.

Alex Hoffman 

And that’s one of the areas where there can be genuine pricing innovation, particularly with 5G coming on board now, cloud-based gaming is dynamically growing, and customers can behave, customers who are game addicts, by the very definition, do not necessarily behave in a rational way, at particular points in time when they need their surging speed, they are prepared to pay what I would call almost surge-like pricing. And so, you can develop all sorts of interesting concepts there that could help boost the margin.

Mark Stiving 

That’s fascinating. So, it’s all about understanding who cares about what and when.

Alex Hoffman 

Exactly, exactly. And when.

Mark Stiving 

And when. Yeah. So, okay, so now you got to share, let’s hear of a failure.

Alex Hoffman 

Let’s speak about failures. And I guess it’s a cultural failure. It’s more of a cultural or psychological failure. The backdrop is a real, despite… What I found, stepping out of the role now, and looking back on my time at Telstra, I found that in time, there was a real disparity between the sophistication of the pricing tools, the insights that the pricing teams had developed and those who were making the critical decision. So, the C-suite there tended to be a disconnect. And when you had strong pricing managers, and at one stage, we had a centralized pricing function, with an executive director reporting directly to the CFO, the CEO, and the board. And he shared a lot of inconvenient truths. In the end, that tended to get shut down in favor of groupthink. At least that was my impression. So, you have this disparity between people who provide the insights and the people who make the critical decisions. And perhaps the failure on my part, and those like me, has been the failure of communications; we may not have effectively communicated in articulating those insights. But it’s also, I think, a case of misalignment of incentives. As surprising as it may be, product management, at least in Telstra, was not really incentivized on the basis of margins. It was more around revenue. At first, it was sales volumes; then it moved to revenue. But margins were not really a critical factor. And so, when we in pricing focus on overall profitability, incremental profitability coming from initiatives, that was politely listened to, but often the attitude was, we need to grow quickly. We need, we have sales targets, and you kept on whatever the strategy might have been; the reality on the ground was a constant oscillation between we’ve got to hit our margins for the quarter, and we’ve got to hit our volumes for the quarter. And depending on where you were across the spectrum, you would oscillate wildly between the two without having a consistent approach.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, that’s an absolutely fascinating way to think about it. In my mind, it’s obvious; I would give up 10% of revenue for 20% more profitability every single day. So yeah, but in a lot of cases, companies can’t do that. They’re compensated on revenue or exactly, maybe the CFO, things like stock prices based on…

Alex Hoffman 

It’s not companies; it’s executives. Executives get compensated on the basis of a certain matrix that might not align with profitability objectives for the company. The law of agency kicking in?

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, and I don’t know that there’s a way around that. Did Telstra, even when you had a centralized pricing organization, did you have a pricing community or pricing committee, or pricing council, where you had executives from a bunch of different departments meeting and talking about these — are the pricing issues we’re dealing with and here’s how these initiatives are going to go drive to make changes?

Alex Hoffman 

Only on an informal basis. There was never a cross-business unit committee to deal with this. Usually, the way that it works is, if I’m looking after fixed broadband or wireline pricing, I will work closely with my product management colleagues, and where we could not come to an alignment, we would escalate to our respective management. And potentially, that gets escalated above. There have been cases where certain decisions have been escalated to the CEO level. And what I found fascinating was, every time, not almost but every time the presumption, the burden of proof would be displaced. The burden of proof would not be on the guys advocating bold pricing changes. And by bold, of course, I mean discounting the hell out of the product. The burden of proof was on the guys who are trying to protect margins. And when challenged, I was in a room where a particular senior manager was challenged to show; you’re advocating this, can you show that you could get the volume necessary to offset? Do you have past campaign experience to show that the volume would necessarily be large enough to offset the destruction of margin on kind of the current organic run rate of customers? And their response was, I don’t need to prove anything. You are the guys who need to prove it. We’re talking about a company that delivers 25 $26 billion in revenue annually.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, it’s certainly challenging if companies aren’t going to focus on margin and profitability. So, I’m not sure I could be a pricing person in a company like that.

Alex Hoffman 

I guess it makes for interesting challenges. But Mark, when you have the rights, it can work when you have a good support network. And we had a great support network from the executive director down. At some point, the support network disappeared.

Mark Stiving 

So, I guess, on the other side, you have been talking about margin or profitability and how I take 20 points of margin for 10 points of revenue any day of the week, right? That doesn’t matter to me. But I guess if the CEO said to me, I don’t want to give up my 10 points or revenue. Or, in fact, I want ten more points of revenue…

Alex Hoffman 

One final point, I want to grow my market share from 50 to 55%.

Mark Stiving 

Right? So okay, great, I’ve got to set goals, I can use price as one of my levers to go help achieve those goals. Even if it isn’t the goal that I would have chosen, I’m not the CEO. So, it’s okay, I could live with that. Just give me a goal.

Alex Hoffman 

You must be transparent and show that for the five point increase in market share, if we focus on price, and if price delivers that, and I can model that using conjoint, or using past campaign experience, I can show you that those five points will mean that we dropped $250 million in margin. Here is the analysis, here are the assumptions, here are the key inputs, do you support it? So long as you’re transparent, you need to be completely transparent about what it will cost. But it doesn’t make for a lot of confidence. And it doesn’t build morale, of course, in the team when that happens. And I guess when I look back now, I know that the mass market pricing team in Telstra in 2018 was of a certain size that is down by about two-thirds. Much of it has been redundancies, of course, because Telstra is going through this program, this part of the Telstra 22 strategy of redundancies, where a third of the workforce is gone. But ultimately, those decisions about growing and supporting sales volume and market share ultimately translate to those redundancies. Because then you start to push frantically on the cost. I’m not saying all of it is due to suboptimal pricing decisions; certainly not a lot of it has been due to the very fact of the transition to NBN, which has destroyed margins across the entire Telco industry. But it’s not as if Telstra and other incumbents weren’t getting compensated for that. The commonwealth government, through NBN, was paying for the decommissioning of much of the infrastructure through particular ongoing payments. The question was, where do you invest those billions of dollars that you would get to give you the ROI of the revenue stream that was being replaced?

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, you’ve got to figure out where you’re going to grow and what you’re going to do?

Alex Hoffman 

And the answer was no way.

Mark Stiving

Yeah. Alex, we are running out of time, unfortunately. This has been fascinating. I’ve loved this conversation. One last question, what’s one piece of pricing advice you’d give our listeners that you think would have a big impact on their business?

Alex Hoffman

Maybe it’s an obvious one, but really figure out using market research, using your past campaign performance, figure out the economic value you bring to the customer. The first thing you need to do is figure out the value, and more importantly, does the customer perceive that value? Are you aligned in your view of the value? And if the customer doesn’t perceive it, why not? Is that a fault in your marketing?

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, I’d say if the customer doesn’t perceive it, it is really value. So, I’m well…

Alex Hoffman 

Yeah. I do make that distinction between perceived and economic value. But yeah, I agree.

Mark Stiving 

Exactly. I guess there’s a thing such as perceived economic value. There we go. Nice. Thank you so much for your time.

Alex Hoffman 

PVA.

Mark Stiving 

Yeah, there we go. If anybody wants to contact you, how can they do that?

Alex Hoffman 

Through my LinkedIn.

Mark Stiving 

Okay, we’ll have the LinkedIn link on the show notes. That’d be great. And Episode 131 is all finished. Thank you very much for listening. If you enjoyed this, would you please leave us a rating and a review on Apple podcasts, any place you listen, they’re very valuable to us? And I promise I’ll read it on the air if you leave it. And I might even send you a copy of my newest book — Win Keep Grow: How to… Just look it up on Amazon. I don’t remember the rest of the title and, that’s sad, isn’t it? Finally, if you have any questions or comments about the podcast or pricing in general, feel free to email me at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact!

Mark Stiving

Thanks again to Jennings Executive Search for sponsoring our podcasts. If you’re looking to hire someone in pricing, I suggest you contact someone who knows pricing people. Contact Jennings Executive Search.

 

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