What if your pricing has been quietly leaking margin—and you simply haven’t looked closely enough to find it?
John Gilbo is Sales Director for North America, Australia, and New Zealand at QuickLizard, with pricing leadership experience at Kirkland’s, Academy Sports + Outdoors, and Safeway. He has spent years working across pricing technology, retail pricing, markdowns, promotions, elasticity, and margin optimization.
In this episode, John explains why pricing deserves a regular health check and how retailers can uncover hidden value by improving processes, reacting faster, and using smarter pricing models.
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Why you have to check out today’s podcast:
- Discover the pricing blind spots that can quietly drain margin, from outdated processes to slow reactions.
- Learn how smarter pricing can turn markdowns, tariffs, competition, and elasticity into opportunities instead of margin problems.
- See how AI and pricing models can help retailers react faster without losing sight of the strategy behind the numbers.
“Pricing is a great thing to look at the health of what you’re doing.”
— John Gilbo
Topics Covered:
03:30 – Pricing as a Strategic Weapon. How better pricing can drive margin, revenue, and sustained value by reacting faster to costs, competition, tariffs, and elasticity.
05:00 – Understanding the Retailer’s Pricing Reality. John breaks down how pricing changes depending on promotions, seasonality, markdowns, and go-to-market strategy.
06:30 – Stop Selling Pricing. Start Solving Problems. Why John starts by understanding a retailer’s problems instead of immediately pitching a pricing solution.
08:30 – How to Make the ROI of Pricing Believable. John explains how using ROI ranges and break-even numbers can create a more credible pricing conversation.
11:30 – Why 25X ROI Is Possible in Retail Pricing. How small improvements in retail margins can create significant financial impact.
13:30 – The Secret to Sustained Pricing Value. Why pricing improvement isn’t a one-time project and how retailers can keep finding the next opportunity.
15:30 – How to Protect Margin When Tariffs Hit. John explains why retailers shouldn’t automatically pass the same cost increase across every product or customer.
18:30 – Where AI Actually Fits in Pricing. How elasticity, seasonality, inventory, competitive data, and AI models can help trigger smarter pricing decisions.
21:00 – Why Customer Segmentation Changes Pricing. How retailers can use customer behavior and loyalty data to make better pricing and merchandising decisions.
23:30 – The Pricing Health Check Every Company Needs. John’s final advice: look at pricing with fresh eyes, uncover process gaps, and regularly review where pricing can create more value.
Key Takeaways:
“Sustained pricing value comes from continuously asking, “What should we solve next?” – John Gilbo
“Don’t automatically pass the same cost increase across every product.” – John Gilbo
Connect with John Gilbo:
Connect with Mark Stiving:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/
- Email: [email protected]
Full Interview Transcript:
(Note: This transcript was created with an AI transcription service. Please forgive any transcription or grammatical errors. We probably sounded better in real life.
John Gilbo
Pricing is a great thing to look at the health of what you’re doing. Uncover the processes.
I still talk to a lot of people that use Excel only, or they’ve had a pricing solution in place for the last 10, 15 years, and they haven’t looked to enhance it.
Just like anything, look at it with fresh eyes. It could be just a process thing, not needed with software. It could be not a big spend in terms of a consultant or a strategy change.
It’s really about almost like doing a health check as it comes to pricing.
[Intro]
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Today’s podcast is sponsored by Jennings Executive Search. I had a great conversation with John Jennings about the skills needed in different pricing roles. He and I think a lot alike. If you’re looking for a new pricing role or if you’re trying to hire just the right pricing person, I strongly suggest you reach out to Jennings Executive Search. They specialize in placing pricing people. Say that three times fast.
Mark Stiving
Welcome to Impact Pricing, the podcast where we discuss pricing, value, and how buyers decide.
I’m Mark Stiving. I help companies turn hidden value into willingness to pay.
Our guest today is John Gilbo. Here are three things you wanna know about John before we start.
He is the sales director in North America, Australia, and New Zealand for QuickLizard.
New Zealand happens to be my second favorite country in the entire world. He’s led pricing at Kirkland’s, Academy Sports + Outdoors, and Safeway. He’s worked extensively in pricing technology.
And the thing that I find most fascinating is he’s an endurance athlete who’s done many marathons, two Ironmans, and he’s escaped from Alcatraz several times.
Welcome, John.
John Gilbo
Thanks, Mark. Good to be here.
Mark Stiving
Okay. Easy question: how’d you get into pricing?
John Gilbo
Yeah, right out of college, I got started with Safeway in their eastern division located in Maryland, and I was an entry-level backstage corporate employee for pricing groceries.
So I did everything from execute manually keying promotions into, be effective, updated cost changes, kinda master data management around pricing, and then took it from there. So grunt work to begin with.
Mark Stiving
But you actually started out in pricing, which is kinda cool.
John Gilbo
I did. I didn’t know what it was the first day I got there- Yeah … but I figured it out.
Mark Stiving
Well, and when I first started in pricing, people asked me, “Did you have one of those guns?” And so did you ever have one of those little price guns where you got to put the prices on things?
John Gilbo
I didn’t have the price gun, but our ads broke on Wednesday, and when I’d come in Wednesday morning, if the light was on my phone for a voicemail on my phone, you’d come in, the old-school desk phone, and, you know, you’d see a light.
I knew I had voicemails, and I knew we probably had a pricing error that I had to go figure out.
And if I, if I picked up the phone and I had 30 voicemails, it was gonna be a busy day.
If it was maybe- … one or two, pretty easy. So no gun, but the old-school phone, so.
Mark Stiving
No, that’s pretty cool. That’s pretty cool.
So one of the things you said that you wanted to, uh, chat about, I always ask my guests what they wanna chat about, and you had mentioned sustained value.
I have no idea what it is that you mean when you say the words sustained value.
So let’s define it, and then we’ll, uh, we’ll figure out how to talk about it.
John Gilbo
Yeah. I think for me, when I put that in the topic, what I love about pricing and what I… You know, I now sell pricing. I’m an advocate for leveraging pricing, enhancing pricing, whether it’s tools, strategy, people, process, just unpeeling the onion, is it’s a great way to drive sustained value.
It’s a great investment, in my view, in time.
You’re trying to optimize what you already have through more intelligent, more efficient, faster reaction to whether it’s competition, cost changes, tariffs, if you have smarter models, elasticity.
So I like it because it can be a strategic weapon to drive real value and real margin, real revenue to teams.
So that was the reason I put that in there.
Mark Stiving
So when you say the words sustained value, you’re really saying value to… And I’m, I’m gonna say the word retailer, if that’s okay.
John Gilbo
It’s perfect.
Mark Stiving
Right. You’re really saying value to the retailer.
John Gilbo
Yeah, correct. Okay. And potentially the customers as well. If your strategy is to be very competitive in your price and making sure your prices are low, if you have regulations that are needing to be followed, state and lo- Sometimes there’s, if you’re familiar with WIC, Women, Infant, and Children rules or other state regulations, you might have to make sure you’re priced in a certain way to be able to meet the demand of what that regulation’s calling for.
Mark Stiving
Yeah.
Okay. I just now realized this. You grew up in the world of B2C, essentially.
So you’re pricing products for consumers to buy. Right now, you’re living in the world of B2B. You are selling to retailers, I assume.
John Gilbo
Correct. Retailers, direct-to-consumer brands. Some B2B players, depending on how their pricing go-to-market strategy is, but yeah, primarily those that are selling to end consumers.
Mark Stiving
Yeah. So it’s interesting because when I think of the word value, I almost always put it on the side of my customer.
John Gilbo
Mm-hmm.
Mark Stiving
Right? Yeah. How much value is my customer getting? And so I can see why you would say sustained value for retailers, because that’s your customer. That makes sense.
John Gilbo
Correct. Yeah.
Mark Stiving
Right. Yeah. Pretty cool. And so I’m trying to decide if I wanna go down the consumer side or the B2B side. Let’s go, let’s go down
John Gilbo
Either way, when I first came to the selling of pricing, I started off at PriceFX, which is primarily B2B.
And so that, that brought me into the world of CPQ, rebates, different ways of looking at pricing waterfalls.
So, you know, I’m not as dangerous in the B2B world, but I’m, I can speak a little bit to it. It’s whatever you like to go into.
Mark Stiving
Yeah, but the key is you are living it. Right. So, so right now you’re-
John Gilbo
That’s right.
Mark Stiving
Yeah. So I’m gonna ask you about your sales pitch. Is that okay?
John Gilbo
Okay, perfect.
Mark Stiving:
How do you sell to retailers? Right, so I love the concept that says sustained value, and what you have to do is communicate value to retailers.
John Gilbo
Correct. Yeah.
Mark Stiving
What does that value look like? What does that conversation look like?
John Gilbo
You know, generally I get into– I try to have a conversation with them first about some of their processes, how they go to market.
Are they primarily selling through everyday pricing, meaning not a lot of promotions, not a high-low retailer.
So you think of a Walmart-esque retailer, their everyday prices are very solid and infrequent promos versus some grocery stores that may be more high-low.
So I talk about just their go-to-market.
Are they heavy promotional? Do they have seasonality and one-time buys around certain products, or are they gonna have markdowns? Markdowns, end of year if you’re selling apparel, footwear, widgets that are seasonal, winter coats, different color lines.
Markdowns can be a huge drag on margin, and they’re, they’re a lot of work to manage.
So I just try to understand how they go to market to their end consumer from a pricing perspective.
And then I just try to come… I truthfully just come to be a problem solver, and I’m honest with them about if I think we can help, I’ll try to continue conversation, set up more calls. If I don’t think we can help, I may bring in one more meeting, but then I’ll be honest with them and say, “Hey, look,” either they’re not complex enough or they’re, you know, sometimes they only sell a few SKUs or their revenue’s not enough, they don’t have the team in place.
I’ll just be honest with them that there’s a gap for what I think the cost versus the value would return.
So try to be open and honest and not pushy at all.
Mark Stiving
Nice. So I’m gonna tell you what I just heard. One of my favorite lines or sayings is, “Value is the result of solving problems.”
And one of the things I heard you say, which I loved, is, “Hey, I’m just gonna go in and figure out what their problems are.”
John Gilbo
Yeah.
Mark Stiving
Right? What are the issues? And then we’ll see how we can solve them. And I assume we say, “Look, if we can solve this, here’s what the result looks like.”
Are you turning that all the way into incremental profit in the sales call? As in, you’re helping them say, “Here’s how much money you can make if we do this correctly.”
John Gilbo
Not in the first call, but I will… I work with them to give them… I like to give them ranges for an ROI.
I like to give them some of what consultants will say pricing will get, which is the high end.
And then I like to give them in bands of what we’ve done historically. I like to give them break-even numbers, so they can see, “Look, here’s what you’ve got to hurdle.”
And then I like to have a nice dialogue about the deltas there. And it helps, I think it helps clarify for me, is it something they should continue? Is it something that I think has a ton of potential? It’s not uncommon for us to see twenty, twenty-five x ROI from our platforms, but I don’t always go in day one with that number because that can come off as salesy, you know, right?
So I just try to show them like, “Oh, look, this is… You don’t have to do the Ironman on your first race. You can do a 5K.” Right?
Let’s just do the 5K as an example. So-
Mark Stiving
So I’m gonna tell you a quick story that hopefully resonates with you, and you can tell me a story back that’s the same. And that is many, many, many years ago, I was in semiconductors.
Went to work for a company. They really needed a new pricing system badly, and I went in and I’m quoting, “Look, you know, we’re gonna get 5% of our revenue in just pure profit.”
And I could not convince the CEO to buy this thing. I failed miserably And then a couple years later, I’d gotten a mentor after that.
He came through and told me all the things I did totally horribly.
And then I found another job several years later, similar situation. But this time, instead of going in and saying, “Hey, we’re gonna make five times revenue,” or, you know, “Five percent of our revenue back in profit,” I went around to every person that cared and figured out what their problems were- with pricing.
And I was able to quantify, “Hey, this is costing us this much, and this one’s costing us this much.”
And I went in with specific problems back to the leadership team, and they’re like, “Oh, yeah, we gotta get this.”
And it was such a different sale.
John Gilbo
It’s like you’re bear hugging or 360.
You’re doing the 360 approach to the blockers or the advocates for, for moving forward, and it’s a smart technique.
And honestly, I don’t always do that, not because I don’t want to, but you forget. You try to do everything as a salesperson to do everything correctly, but sometimes you miss to do that. But that’s a great approach.
You wanna hit the IT teams, the CFO group to talk about, you know, the ROI, the business teams, the merchants.
You wanna, you wanna cover off on all that. And it’s, one, you can’t always get access, but two, you forget. Like, you’re human, right? So…
Mark Stiving:
Right. Right. Well, it’s so funny because you looked at that, you looked at what I– the story I said and said, “Oh, it’s the 360 technique.”
First off, I’ve never heard of that.
But secondly, I looked at it as I was quantifying value, right? I was finding specific problems and making it believable to the executive team- Mm-hmm … that there’s real money to be had if we buy this thing.
John Gilbo
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Mark Stiving
So-
John Gilbo
It’s good. Smart.
Mark Stiving
I thought the problems were the thing that I was keying off on there.
So-
John Gilbo
Yeah. Love it.
Mark Stiving
How is it that you get a twenty-five x return or ROI? I mean, that’s just insane, isn’t it?
John Gilbo
What’s nice about my current role is we are aggressively priced. We’re built differently in how we price our product, number one.
But number two, in some, some retailers, the lift in revenue, because their margins are pretty thin, you can have a pretty nice impact on their margin line.
So we come in with an aggressive, not only annual subscription, but implementation cost.
And we wanna be a long-term partner with them. We wanna grow. We wanna eliminate the barrier to entry, if you will.
And that first year can be a lot. We figured out a way to tighten that up, not just for the first year, but going forward, and it really benefits our clients.
So we try to come in with, you know, aggressive pricing that is not a blocker for them to move forward.
Other reasons, you know, there’s always other reasons. They could have other projects going on, new warehouse, new ERP system, store growth, whatever it is. There’s always a million projects to compete with.
Might not be the right time for whatever reason, but we try to… You know, I can control pricing, and it’s one thing I, I like to try to, to bring to the table and try to make a non-factor when I’m in a, a nice sales cycle with a, with a partner. So-
Mark Stiving
Yeah. Well, 25X returns feels, just knowing that, you’re not pricing enough.
John Gilbo
Yeah.
Mark Stiving
Right? You need to charge more.
John Gilbo
Yeah. But don’t tell my…
Mark Stiving
Talk to me about year two, right? So year one is, you know, everybody’s loving this, right? Yeah. ‘Cause we just, you know, we just took five percent gross margin and made it seven percent gross margin. Wasn’t that just freaking amazing?
John Gilbo
Yeah. Yeah.
Mark Stiving
Year two, I start at seven, you’re not delivering me anything, right?
I’m at seven at the end of year two. How do you keep them knowing, believing, liking the fact that you’re still delivering the same two percent that you were before?
John Gilbo
Yep. Yeah, it’s a good question.
So we’ve got ways, depending on how retailers tackle their problems. They don’t hit everything all at once.
So as an example, if you were a company that had– let’s say you’re an apparel and footwear retailer, and you have some seasonal goods that have marked down, and then you, you have a lot of one in, one out products.
So maybe, you know, you’re bringing different colors or different styles in that will be living for four or five months.
The first project we may tackle for you is helping solve your markdown efficiency and more smartly price your markdown.
So if you were to take a vanilla spread of, “Hey, this shoe isn’t selling, let’s mark it down in our chain.”
Well, some stores it’s selling well, you don’t need to mark it down at all.
Some stores, you should probably take it deeper sooner ’cause it’s not selling at all.
So getting more granular, using sell-through data, reacting quicker can really provide a huge benefit.
So in some cases, we start with markdown. We haven’t even touched their everyday pricing or their promotion yet. So you start with a project, solve markdown, build some trust, get the team on board, and sometimes all category teams won’t, won’t go at once.
So it’s a process where you’re bringing on the early adopters, getting some things moving. And then depending on how they go after it, there could be AI involved in. We’ve got rules-based pricing.
We’ve got the ability to configure models for them specific to their challenges. So we’re always… And this is where the sustained value comes in.
We’re always looking at what’s next.
And sometimes it’s not just taking the five to seven, the seven to eight. I’m working with a soon-to-be client. They’re fearful their market margin is gonna go down three or four percent in the next year.
Their goal is not to go up. Their goal is to only go down one or two, and they’re calling it beat the market.
So if their margin deflation or reduction can be a little bit better than the market, they’re gonna be happy.
So it really just depends on objectives at that point and how we can help. But it’s one of those things that, you know, again, pricing, it’s a– I got into it as a niche a long time ago, and seems like every year there’s a new, a new challenge that we help solve.
And, you know, tariffs didn’t exist when I got– They did exist, but not at the level.
And that alone, solving that and, and helping companies with that is a, was a new wrinkle that, you know, wasn’t planned for the year before those got started, so
Mark Stiving
Yeah. Well-
John Gilbo
Fun times.
Mark Stiving
Since you bring it up, how do companies handle tariffs?
Do they just say, “Hey, it’s costing me twenty-five percent more, I’m gonna raise prices twenty-five percent?”
John Gilbo
Some do. Some take it even more. So some retailers will maintain the margin percent, so if you receive a dollar increase, you’ve gotta take it up more to maintain your margin percent. Some are just passing the dollar on.
Some are not taking a peanut butter spread approach, but they’re getting more granular into whether it’s items, right? Top moving items they might not take the full amount and pass it on to slow-moving items, things that are less elastic.
And same with clients. You know, keep your best clients happy. Maybe they’re not taking as big of a, the tariff pass-through on those clients and passing it on to the ones that are maybe not shopping as frequently.
So multiple tactics, and it really depends on, on their strategy. What we’ll help do is automate when those tariff changes come in. A lot of companies are unable to react to those fast enough and instead of, you know, margin gains, it’s really avoiding the margin leakage that’s been happening.
The volume of cost changes due to tariffs, a lot of companies haven’t been able to keep up with that if they’re using spreadsheets or manual methods.
Mark Stiving
So do you act as a consultant and help them go through these as we sell this? Or do you have an implementation team that acts as a consultant?
John Gilbo
Yeah. We do have an implementation team, and what’s nice about QuickLizard is the implementation team from day one is with you, and from the life of the contract you have a customer success manager that can help with the consulting side of…
I would say more around how do you leverage our platform, how to set up strategies in our platform, how to get the most out of the platform.
We don’t do– I wouldn’t say we’re, like, a strategic consultant in the classic sense, but there are some ways we’ve, we’ve helped, you know, companies think about how to set up the rules and strategies to gain margin.
Mark Stiving
So when you think about tariffs, what you’re really saying is, “You tell me the strategy you want, and we’re gonna help you implement it.”
John Gilbo
Correct. Yeah. And we’ll forecast that impact for you, so you can do, if you’re unsure, you can run some what if forecasting scenario planning and things like that.
Mark Stiving
Nice. And so almost everything we’ve talked about we could do deterministically, right? Pre-AI.
What does AI do for you?
John Gilbo
Yeah, for us, we have a couple buckets in our world. We have models that we use to help set pricing, so we have seasonality models that can help drive pricing, elasticity models.
We can configure models around almost any dynamic attribute.
So if you wanted to say inventory is a, a dynamic attribute that we want to use to drive some pricing out of, whether it’s we’re low on inventory and it’s selling well, bump the pricing up or vice versa.
We’re not meeting plan, we’re falling behind our sell-through rates, trigger a promotion, trigger a regular price change, trigger something to drive pricing.
So we’ve got the model side of it that is highly configurable for our clients. We’ve also– What’s great about what I’ve learned since I’ve joined, we spend a lot of our internal capital making our product and our processes better through agentic tools and, and AI, whether that’s helping with the product roadmap, helping QA, bug fixes, building internal processes to make things faster, and– or which includes our implementation.
So one of the reasons our implementations are, are faster and not as expensive as, as in the past, we have a lot of agentic tools sitting on top of that process to streamline it, to find errors, and data is always an issue when we’re, when we receive data like that can be a slow point in the process, and we’ve used it for really, you know, turbocharging implementation.
And then the third one is in the UI.
We have some natural language agentic capabilities in there, and we’re enhancing the UI with more and more every day.
So that’s kind of the core of almost like a three-legged stool is the way I explain it to our clients.
And again, it’s highly configurable for you.
Mark Stiving
Yeah. So here’s what I wanted you to say. Give it to me. I wanted you to say, “Yeah, we have AI tell us which products to test pricing on so we can see what happens so that we can make better predictions in the future.”
John Gilbo
We can help drive that if that’s the target. Generically, those models– When I said those models can enhance pricing, we can…
We use AI and we also scrape competitive scrape data. We use AI in finding similar matches. We use AI to help, you know, call out which items should be promoted, maybe pull those off.
So it really depends on the objectives of our clients and how we leverage it at the end of the day. But yeah, that’s one that would be a classic use case for us.
Mark Stiving
Yeah. Pretty fascinating. In my mind, I don’t do much B2C work,
Occasionally I do, and when I do, I’m always thinking there have to be five, 10, 15 different types of customers who buy in different ways, and that’s probably what’s driving this predictive behavior or predictable behavior. And so if we just talk about groceries for a second, right?
I’m watching the price of mayonnaise at Safeway versus the price of mayonnaise at Raley’s, and does that drive my store choice? Does that drive whether I buy it this week? Does that drive the quantity I buy?
And different people behave differently.
How do you put all that together in a model that helps predict what’s about to go happen?
John Gilbo
Yeah. For us, that’s one of the more complex factors to consider, right?
If you’ve got– if, like a Safeway would have customer-level data, and they can segment their clients into groups.
So, you know, you might call it, you know, tier one or best shopper or whatever. And they may come into the store, let’s say, three times a week and spend X amount of dollars and, you know, you want them to be loyal.
And then you have the other tail, right? A lot of customers that come in once a month and grab a sandwich, or once a month and grab just a couple items.
We would weight, you know, and a lot of companies would weight those loyal customers with a little bit more.
You know, you put more weight behind how we would price for them and the decision-making around how you would merchandise for them and how you would, whether it’s pricing, whether it’s assortment, whether it’s, you name it.
It’s the full process for how you wanna take care of those loyal clients.
And we can do some things around if clients have customer segmentation that we can bring in and use that as a factor for our models, for sure. So it’s another feed that we can consume.
Mark Stiving
It just seems like a fascinating problem to me, right?
John Gilbo
It’s fascinating. You can get into the weeds. In a prior life, I worked in this space, and you can kinda just go down a rabbit hole and never come up, and you’re, you’re slicing data, slicing data, slicing data, and you forget what question you were asked at the beginning, and then you gotta come up for air.
Mark Stiving
Yep. Excellent.
John, we’re running out of time, but let me ask you the final question. Okay.
What is one piece of pricing advice you’d give our listeners that you think could have a big impact on their business?
John Gilbo
You know, I always think it’s, it’s one of those things, you know, teams do. They look at- Health of categories, health of business.
Pricing is a great thing to look at the health of what you’re doing. Uncover the processes.
I still talk to a lot of people that use Excel only, or they’ve had a pricing solution in place for the last 10, 15 years, and they haven’t looked to enhance it. Just like anything, look at it with fresh eyes.
It could be just a process thing, not needed with software.
It could be not a big spend in terms of a consultant or a strategy change. It’s really about almost like doing a health check as it comes to pricing, and dig deep because, again, back to your question at the beginning, what is sustained value?
You can really drive a lot of value out of pricing, and if you’re curious about what’s going on, you know, within the, your four walls and, and specifically to pricing, I think there’s, there’s a lot of money to be made for companies.
And, and what I’ve found is you usually reinvest that.
So it’s, you know, back to the, you had talked about earlier, value for the customer. Usually, when we’d reap some value in based on pricing, we’d, we’d reinvest it in a category or a set of stores and, you know, try to take care of something that was out of alignment in the other way.
So having that health check, having that regular process review, I think is super, super healthy.
Mark Stiving
Yep. If you don’t have margin, you can’t reinvest.
John Gilbo
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Mark Stiving
So John, thank you so much for your time today. Yeah. If anybody wants to contact you, how can they do that?
John Gilbo
My LinkedIn’s great, and if you click on my contact info in there, you’ll see my email and my phone number’s in there as well.
So you can either hit me with a DM on LinkedIn, or you’ll see that info sitting in my cell and personal email as well.
Mark Stiving
Perfect. To our listeners, thank you for your time.
If you enjoyed this would you please leave us a rating and a review? And finally, if you have any questions or comments about the podcast or if you wanna see value through your buyer’s eyes, email me, [email protected].
Now, go make an impact.
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[Outro]
